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Hi!
[WARNING: Not for the weak hearted LEGO purist ;) ]
I'm planning to build a remote controlled LEGO lumber truck.
What I'm planning to do is to controll all the functions via a remote
controll (eg. Sanwa 5 channel RC equipment). By all the functions I
mean:
Move truck forward/revers
Turn truck left/right
Rise/lower support legs next to the crane
Turn crane left/right
Rise/lower crane
Bend crane
Rotate claw
Open/close claw
The servos is only allowed to move switches and a steering knob. Just
like if some person would be using the truck.
Since I plan that much functions I have to make two thingies move with
one servo, e.g. Pneumatic switch and gearbox on one servo.
Does ay body has any experience with this? Is there any pictures on
the net that I might find interesting? Any ideas, pointers and such?
I might use an RCX to smooth things up a bit, I'm about to build a
test module to see if I can make all these thingies move OK before I
start building the truck it self.
Thanks!
Play well!
/Tobbe, Sweden
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In lugnet.technic, Tobbe Arnesson writes:
> [WARNING: Not for the weak hearted LEGO purist ;) ]
Not for the weak-hearted *anything*.
You realize, of course, that this could destroy the newsgroup: if you
succeed, no one else will be able to brag about anything for months ;-)
Suggestion: all the crane trucks I've seen have separate seats for the truck
and the crane (probably so the driver doesn't accidentally raise the crane
when trying to turn on the windshield wipers...). Why not do a 3-channel RC
for the truck, and a 5-channel for the crane? It will cost more, of course.
But it will probably be *much* easier to make it work. And it will be more
realistic.
Another possibility: use 8 servos, and one or more relays to switch some of
the channels between "driving" servos and "crane" servos.
Ran
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Ran Talbott wrote:
> Suggestion: all the crane trucks I've seen have separate seats for the truck
> and the crane (probably so the driver doesn't accidentally raise the crane
> when trying to turn on the windshield wipers...). Why not do a 3-channel RC
> for the truck, and a 5-channel for the crane? It will cost more, of course.
> But it will probably be *much* easier to make it work. And it will be more
> realistic.
I'm not entirely sure if Tobbe was referring to the "traditional" type of mobile
crane setup here - I rather get the impression, although I may be wrong, that he
is intent on making a "logging truck", with a crane similar to that you get for
loading bricks and whatnot onto flatbed trailers, i.e. it consists of a rotating
boom without a cabin for the crane.
Nonetheless, your idea is an excellent one; another advantage of it is that by
placing most of the crane controls above the rotating part, you avoid having lots
of wires going through or around the turntable, which usually results in a
hideous tangle. If 360 degree rotation is the goal here, such an approach would
be highly relevant. It can also sometimes be helpful to use this extra mass from
all the control apparatus as a counterweight to the crane.
Jennifer Clark
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Hey, you guys are luck
My digital Camera messed up and i just got it back and had built a knucle
bone (the tern used to call the loader on a logging truck)
Well, anyway, I have several pics you can look at. It isn't remote control,
but it is modeled after the one on Brickshelf.com, 8868 .
I will reply to this message with the page that have the pics of it soon.
Adam
Ran Talbott wrote in message ...
> In lugnet.technic, Tobbe Arnesson writes:
>
> > [WARNING: Not for the weak hearted LEGO purist ;) ]
>
> Not for the weak-hearted *anything*.
>
> You realize, of course, that this could destroy the newsgroup: if you
> succeed, no one else will be able to brag about anything for months ;-)
>
> Suggestion: all the crane trucks I've seen have separate seats for the • truck
> and the crane (probably so the driver doesn't accidentally raise the crane
> when trying to turn on the windshield wipers...). Why not do a 3-channel • RC
> for the truck, and a 5-channel for the crane? It will cost more, of • course.
> But it will probably be *much* easier to make it work. And it will be more
> realistic.
>
> Another possibility: use 8 servos, and one or more relays to switch some • of
> the channels between "driving" servos and "crane" servos.
>
> Ran
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Ok, I got the pics uploaded, the address is
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?m=bigtoe
Check it out and see what you think.
Adam Ogle
Adam Ogle wrote in message ...
> Hey, you guys are luck
> My digital Camera messed up and i just got it back and had built a knucle
> bone (the tern used to call the loader on a logging truck)
> Well, anyway, I have several pics you can look at. It isn't remote • control,
> but it is modeled after the one on Brickshelf.com, 8868 .
> I will reply to this message with the page that have the pics of it soon.
>
> Adam
> Ran Talbott wrote in message ...
> > In lugnet.technic, Tobbe Arnesson writes:
> >
> > > [WARNING: Not for the weak hearted LEGO purist ;) ]
> >
> > Not for the weak-hearted *anything*.
> >
> > You realize, of course, that this could destroy the newsgroup: if you
> > succeed, no one else will be able to brag about anything for months ;-)
> >
> > Suggestion: all the crane trucks I've seen have separate seats for the • truck
> > and the crane (probably so the driver doesn't accidentally raise the crane
> > when trying to turn on the windshield wipers...). Why not do a 3-channel • RC
> > for the truck, and a 5-channel for the crane? It will cost more, of • course.
> > But it will probably be *much* easier to make it work. And it will be • more
> > realistic.
> >
> > Another possibility: use 8 servos, and one or more relays to switch some • of
> > the channels between "driving" servos and "crane" servos.
> >
> > Ran
>
>
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> You realize, of course, that this could destroy the newsgroup: if you
> succeed, no one else will be able to brag about anything for months ;-)
Don't worry. It will propably take months for me to solve this thing,
so you have plenty of time to beat me on the finish-line :P
> Suggestion: all the crane trucks I've seen have separate seats for the truck
> and the crane (probably so the driver doesn't accidentally raise the crane
> when trying to turn on the windshield wipers...). Why not do a 3-channel RC
> for the truck, and a 5-channel for the crane? It will cost more, of course.
> But it will probably be *much* easier to make it work. And it will be more
> realistic.
It's possible for me to get my hands on another RC equipment since my
father just placed his model airplanes on the shelf. But I don't want
to do it this way. (perhaps I should steal my brothers computerized
controller that has a switch between different recievers, then I only
need one transmitter :) )
> Another possibility: use 8 servos, and one or more relays to switch some of
> the channels between "driving" servos and "crane" servos.
It would consume to much space I think. Then the wheels would look
*very* small compared to the truck :)
See my reply to John Jensen for more details of how I'm currently
planing to solve the "low number of channels problem".
Thanks!
/Tobbe - http://lego.arnesson.nu
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On Mon, 7 Aug 2000 07:35:01 GMT, tnt@arnesson.nu (Tobbe Arnesson)
wrote:
> Hi!
>
> [WARNING: Not for the weak hearted LEGO purist ;) ]
>
> I'm planning to build a remote controlled LEGO lumber truck.
>
> What I'm planning to do is to controll all the functions via a remote
> controll (eg. Sanwa 5 channel RC equipment). By all the functions I
> mean:
>
> Move truck forward/revers
> Turn truck left/right
> Rise/lower support legs next to the crane
> Turn crane left/right
> Rise/lower crane
> Bend crane
> Rotate claw
> Open/close claw
>
> The servos is only allowed to move switches and a steering knob. Just
> like if some person would be using the truck.
Okay! Are you planning on renting a garage for it?:)
I can't see a solution to the problem with only 5 controllers (servos
or whatever). But how about splitting the functions up, you need a
channel to Rise/lower support legs next to the crane and a channel to
switch to crane mode, which leaves you with three channels to drive
the thing. You need to build soem circuitry to handle the switching.
In crane mode you use all five channels for the various functions of
the crane, and the switch to drive mode should be done automatically
when you place the crane in its rests.
I would no go with pneumatics, they're difficult enough to control
when you're having direct control of the pneumatic switches, also
because that's exactly what they are . switches. With motors
micromotors and some easily built circuitry, you can achieve much
better control.
Regards.
John
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> Okay! Are you planning on renting a garage for it?:)
LOL, that might be a great idea ;)
> I can't see a solution to the problem with only 5 controllers (servos
> or whatever). But how about splitting the functions up, you need a
> channel to Rise/lower support legs next to the crane and a channel to
> switch to crane mode, which leaves you with three channels to drive
> the thing. You need to build soem circuitry to handle the switching.
> In crane mode you use all five channels for the various functions of
> the crane, and the switch to drive mode should be done automatically
> when you place the crane in its rests.
I thought something like this;
The RC-controller has two joysticks that combined control four servos.
The fifth channel is a switch made for landing gears (it's an model
airplane controller).
I thought that the switch should act as a switch between truck mode
and crane mode.
TRUCK MODE
The first joystick controls forward/reverse of the truck and steering
I, BTW, plan to let the steering servo have direct connection with the
steering mechanism of the truck, mainly 'cause it would be easier to
drive the truck if the steering resets it self to center if I let go
of the joystick. It can be done with RCX but I have no rotation
sensors and I can't find 'em here in Sweden :(.
The second joystick should be used for rising/lowering the support
legs next to the crane.
This leaves one channel un-used in truck mode.
CRANE MODE
When I dip the switch a servo is rotating the full way to the other
maximum. This is to be used as a mechanical switch to turn on
compressors and turn of the truck functionality. This way nothing in
the lines of driving steering should happen when the servos move.
Joystick 1
Moves the crane up/down and left right.
Joystick 2
Bends the crane joint and open/close of the jaws.
This leaves one function that I want, rotation of the claw on it's own
axis. I might implement this in the truck mode or leave it out.
If I'm leaving it out I might as-well make the switch rise/lower the
support legs.
This hopefully gives me eight channels for control and one channel to
switch between the different modes.
SCHEME
Gearbox ==control axle== SERVO ==contorl axle== pneumatic switch
(the servo always moves both axles but the switch - 5th channel - is
to make sure only one of the functions is active)
This should make it possible to operate two functions with but one
servo. I hope I don't need more non-LEGO parts then the RC controllers
and the logs :)
I have a couple of polarity switches, an RCX with a bunch of switches
and some old style pneumatics. Three geared motors, two old style and
one micromotor and a turn table. No compressor though, but I'll see
what I need and then order some stuff from LEGO Service here in
Sweden. I hope they have them in stock :)
I can't afford to much in this project and I'm just back from the
black period so I don't have much of the new legos :( I think I'll buy
the 8462 Tow Truck for this project though, if I can find it. I want
the airtanks and pneumatics, wheels and the turn table.
> I would no go with pneumatics, they're difficult enough to control
> when you're having direct control of the pneumatic switches, also
> because that's exactly what they are . switches. With motors
> micromotors and some easily built circuitry, you can achieve much
> better control.
*think*
That might be a good idea. I'm going to try with pneumatics first,
since it's been so long since I used 'em. I have not used them since
my black period started :(
If I don't get it working alright I might leave the pistons for
decoration :)
Any way, design comes in second place here, first I have to see if I
can make this thingie move! I'm planning on building a test bench
today where I set up the motors and such, just to see what hits my
wallet might take from this project *shrugh*
Thanks for the comments :)
I will try to take some detail photos of a real life truck so that I
can study how they actualy are built. I know of two in my area.
Here are some pictures I just found on the net (so you folks can see
what kind of truck I'm onto):
http://www.hoglundsflak.se/images/illustra_produkter_1.jpg
http://w1.953.telia.com/~u95300020/Bilder/Magnus/Timmerbil.JPG
As you might realize I was inspired by the LEGO set 8868 that I wanted
before my black period.
http://www.lugnet.com/pause/search/?query=8868
I'm planning on putting actual wood sticks on the truck, it might be
designed to hide some controllers if they take up much space (I'm
afraid they will).
Play well and have a nice day!
/Tobbe - http://lego.arnesson.nu
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On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:11:00 GMT, tnt@arnesson.nu (Tobbe Arnesson)
wrote:
> I have a couple of polarity switches, an RCX with a bunch of switches
> and some old style pneumatics. Three geared motors, two old style and
> one micromotor and a turn table. No compressor though, but I'll see
> what I need and then order some stuff from LEGO Service here in
> Sweden. I hope they have them in stock :)
You just build the compressor, and for gods sake - don't use the air
tanks! They're great when used with the handpump, but can ruin almost
any compressor design. Take a look at the compressor in that awesom
"claw truck" (can't remember the set number, but I'm sure others can)
it is far inferior to some of designs that have been on display here,
but it works anyway because it doesn't use the tanks, and if you're
only switching the compressor on when using the crane, you probably
doesn't need to concern yourself with switching off to avoid
overpressure.
> I can't afford to much in this project and I'm just back from the
> black period so I don't have much of the new legos :( I think I'll buy
> the 8462 Tow Truck for this project though, if I can find it. I want
> the airtanks and pneumatics, wheels and the turn table.
Good set, but those airtanks ..... I've modified mine to only use
one:)
Another advice, I reacently built a stationary lumber crane (it ended
up so big it _had_ to be stationary:) three joints on the arm and claw
function, it could actually reach anywhere on one of the big
baseplates, but I was totally entagled in pneuamtics hoses when I got
an idea that nealy halved the usage of hoses.
Place the cylinders so that the weight of the arm will give you one of
the directions, meaning, remove one of the hoses, and let the weight
work for you, use rubberbands too, use the plastic tubing along the
arm, and hose over the joints. there's lot's of tupe in 8462.
> I will try to take some detail photos of a real life truck so that I
> can study how they actualy are built. I know of two in my area.
Choose one with a large cabin:) You'll need the space:)
Regards
John
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> You just build the compressor, and for gods sake - don't use the air
> tanks! They're great when used with the handpump, but can ruin almost
> any compressor design. Take a look at the compressor in that awesom
> "claw truck" (can't remember the set number, but I'm sure others can)
It's 8868 I reccon, the same set that gave me the idea to this whole
project :)
I did build a compressor yesterday with a 'medium' sized old-style
cylinder. I used two old style 9v motors and I didn't like the weak
performance of the pneumatics.
I needed two engines in order to get a reasonable speed of the
compressor aswell as strenght enough to turn the compressor when the
pneumatics had a load or when the switches were all centered.
Is the new-style pneumatics better then the old style? I mean from a
power point of view. I got the old kind with but one hose connection.
I'm planing on eating pasta the rest of the month so that I can get
the Tow Truck *today* LOL Hope my g/f also think that is necessary :)
Is there a difference in the switches? It doesn't look like it, I've
been doing some research but everyone on the net is festuruing the
new-style pneumatics.
I reccon there must be a difference since the old 2x4 direction brick
is no longer needed. Does the switches direct the air instead? I mean,
is there an 'in' and an 'out' port on the switch?
> use the plastic tubing along the
> arm, and hose over the joints. there's lot's of tupe in 8462.
That is a great idea! So, one can actually use those to something good
:)
I can't half the tubing as-is since I use the old-style pneumatics
with one hose per cylinder. An advantage actually, but the performance
is poor, perhaps they all are...
> > I will try to take some detail photos of a real life truck so that I
> > can study how they actualy are built. I know of two in my area.
> Choose one with a large cabin:) You'll need the space:)
Yeah, I do need the space. I glued a medium sized pulley wheel to one
of the servos and started testing control of valves and gears
yesterday. It got huge! I think I'm going to need all the space on the
back of the truck (where the lumber goes) just to fit the servos and
such. I'd better build a trailer too :)
I also called LEGO Service, Sweden yesterday but they don't work after
four o'clock, I'll try again today :)
Have a nice day :)
/Tobbe - http://lego.arnesson.nu
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In lugnet.technic, Tobbe Arnesson writes:
> Is the new-style pneumatics better then the old style? I mean from a
> power point of view. I got the old kind with but one hose connection.
Yes you can say that.
In fact the old style uses press/suck system and the new style only uses press
That means that the suck action uses a sort of vacuum. This is always less
powerful then pressure.
And you can’t use an airtank.
The new style cylinders have a metal axle, so they don’t bent, see:
http://www.lugnet.com/pause/search/?query=5108-1
> Is there a difference in the switches? It doesn't look like it, I've
> been doing some research but everyone on the net is festuruing the
> new-style pneumatics.
NO they are the same but used different
>
> I reccon there must be a difference since the old 2x4 direction brick
> is no longer needed. Does the switches direct the air instead? I mean,
> is there an 'in' and an 'out' port on the switch?
see pictures
old style (notice the valve)
http://www.brickshelf.com/scans/8000/8851/8851-02.html
new style (no airtank)(the valve is in the new pump)
http://www.brickshelf.com/scans/8000/8837/8837-04.html
new style with air tank
http://www.lugnet.com/pause/search/?query=8299-1
new style compressor without airtank
http://www.brickshelf.com/scans/8000/8868/8868-02.html
this is a simple design drawing of an autopower-off compressor I've made.
I'm working on the ldraw drawing.(coming soon)
http://members.xoom.com/legorobotica/lugnet/compress.gif
greetings martyn
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> In fact the old style uses press/suck system and the new style only uses press
> That means that the suck action uses a sort of vacuum. This is always less
> powerful then pressure.
> And you can’t use an airtank.
Well, I think you can put two airtanks in the system right after the
2x4 brick that has the valves in the old system. One for vacuum and
one for preassure.
> The new style cylinders have a metal axle, so they don’t bent, see:
> http://www.lugnet.com/pause/search/?query=5108-1
Hm, I just thought that it only where crome on plastic to make an
airtight seal, thanks!
> this is a simple design drawing of an autopower-off compressor I've made.
> I'm working on the ldraw drawing.(coming soon)
> http://members.xoom.com/legorobotica/lugnet/compress.gif
Hum, cant't seem to contact xoom right now, I'll look at it later.
I bought the 8462 Tow Truck yesterday and I'm planning on making a
page describing the differences between the two systems.
Thanks for the info!
I'll update you all in this project via my webpage in the future
(future means that it's not there yet but will be soon, and this time
the 'soon' is for real :), thanks!
/Tobbe - http://lego.arnesson.nu
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There is one very important point that no one has considered. The FCC
has set up laws prohibiting use of air frequencies on land vehicles.
This is to protect RC pilots from interference from other people on
the same frequency. Someone could be seriously hurt by a crashing
plane due to interference (It has happened). You mentioned it was an
airplane radio. It is most likely on an air frequency. I recommend
that you send it in to the manufacturer to convert to a ground
frequency.
On Mon, 7 Aug 2000 07:35:01 GMT, tnt@arnesson.nu (Tobbe Arnesson)
wrote:
> Hi!
>
> [WARNING: Not for the weak hearted LEGO purist ;) ]
>
> I'm planning to build a remote controlled LEGO lumber truck.
>
> What I'm planning to do is to controll all the functions via a remote
> controll (eg. Sanwa 5 channel RC equipment). By all the functions I
> mean:
>
> Move truck forward/revers
> Turn truck left/right
> Rise/lower support legs next to the crane
> Turn crane left/right
> Rise/lower crane
> Bend crane
> Rotate claw
> Open/close claw
>
> The servos is only allowed to move switches and a steering knob. Just
> like if some person would be using the truck.
>
> Since I plan that much functions I have to make two thingies move with
> one servo, e.g. Pneumatic switch and gearbox on one servo.
>
> Does ay body has any experience with this? Is there any pictures on
> the net that I might find interesting? Any ideas, pointers and such?
>
> I might use an RCX to smooth things up a bit, I'm about to build a
> test module to see if I can make all these thingies move OK before I
> start building the truck it self.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Play well!
>
> /Tobbe, Sweden
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> There is one very important point that no one has considered. The FCC
> has set up laws prohibiting use of air frequencies on land vehicles.
> This is to protect RC pilots from interference from other people on
> the same frequency. Someone could be seriously hurt by a crashing
> plane due to interference (It has happened). You mentioned it was an
> airplane radio. It is most likely on an air frequency. I recommend
> that you send it in to the manufacturer to convert to a ground
> frequency.
Not to worry, I've been using that equipment for long and are well in
to the laws and such here in Sweden. It's in a legal and open, free
band with no restrictions at all. No one uses that frequency for
airplanes anymore here in Sweden, and if they do they have only them
self to blame is something goes wrong.
I've been using model airplanes for over ten years now and as the
restrictions are it's not likely that someone will use one over my
house (where I plan to use the truck) since I live in a city.
But thanks for your input, it is an important issue! I've seen planes
go down in over 300km/h due to people that don't give a sh*t about the
rules here in Sweden and the 'landingmark' ain't pretty!
/Tobbe
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Ohh I didn't realise you are from Sweden.
On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 16:36:42 GMT, tnt@arnesson.nu (Tobbe Arnesson) wrote:
> > There is one very important point that no one has considered. The FCC
> > has set up laws prohibiting use of air frequencies on land vehicles.
> > This is to protect RC pilots from interference from other people on
> > the same frequency. Someone could be seriously hurt by a crashing
> > plane due to interference (It has happened). You mentioned it was an
> > airplane radio. It is most likely on an air frequency. I recommend
> > that you send it in to the manufacturer to convert to a ground
> > frequency.
>
> Not to worry, I've been using that equipment for long and are well in
> to the laws and such here in Sweden. It's in a legal and open, free
> band with no restrictions at all. No one uses that frequency for
> airplanes anymore here in Sweden, and if they do they have only them
> self to blame is something goes wrong.
>
> I've been using model airplanes for over ten years now and as the
> restrictions are it's not likely that someone will use one over my
> house (where I plan to use the truck) since I live in a city.
>
> But thanks for your input, it is an important issue! I've seen planes
> go down in over 300km/h due to people that don't give a sh*t about the
> rules here in Sweden and the 'landingmark' ain't pretty!
>
> /Tobbe
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Ok! The project page is up and running. I'll update it as the work
goes on:
http://lego.arnesson.nu/project/rc_truck.htm
(sorry if the page is slow, I'll move it to another server when I find
the time for it)
/Tobbe - http://lego.arnesson.nu
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