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I would like to find an Austrian Rail Car. Would like to have new,
unopened but will consider opened with instructions, all pieces and
realistic price.
Reply to me directly.
keilers@uswest.net
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Kurt Eilers wrote:
>
> I would like to find an Austrian Rail Car. Would like to have new,
> unopened but will consider opened with instructions, all pieces and
> realistic price.
Do you mean a 4551? It's an engine, not a "car". If so a realistic price
on this is from 90 to 160 or so, I think. A bit more for unopened.
> Reply to me directly.
Good advice if you have one of these to sell, but I posted because I
don't and would rather present info for others to comment on.
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Specifics are fine, but I would like to get the set. How many LEGO sets
ever included the word "AUSTRIAN?"
EILERS
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Kurt Eilers wrote:
> >
> > I would like to find an Austrian Rail Car. Would like to have new,
> > unopened but will consider opened with instructions, all pieces and
> > realistic price.
>
> Do you mean a 4551? It's an engine, not a "car". If so a realistic price
> on this is from 90 to 160 or so, I think. A bit more for unopened.
>
> > Reply to me directly.
>
> Good advice if you have one of these to sell, but I posted because I
> don't and would rather present info for others to comment on.
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Kurt Eilers <keilers@uswest.net> wrote:
> Specifics are fine, but I would like to get the set. How many LEGO sets
> ever included the word "AUSTRIAN?"
I'm sure your heartfelt gratitude will go a long way towards helping
you in your search for this set.
Oh, and a search on Lugnet for "austrian" turned up four sets - none
of which actually contained the word austrian and none of which, I
bet, are what you're looking for.
--
Unofficial listing of weekly US Lego Shop at Home phone specials
http://www.lugnet.com/lsahs/
800-835-4386 (S@H USA) / 800-267-5346 (S@H Canada)
www.lugnet.com/news/ - Meet more LEGO fans in your area through LUGNET
|
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Hi Kurt,
You are refering to 4551 Austrian Federal Republic Locomotive which in
the US is called the Crocodile engine (for some reason?). I have scoured
every toy store in Australia for these sort after engines and
accummulated 17 of them which I have been selling on the American
market. I believe this set was never readily available in the US and is
a must have for all those train maniacs like myself. It contained a
number of unique pieces so building one from spares would be near to
impossible.
Mark H.
Kurt Eilers wrote:
>
> I would like to find an Austrian Rail Car. Would like to have new,
> unopened but will consider opened with instructions, all pieces and
> realistic price.
>
> Reply to me directly.
>
> keilers@uswest.net
|
|
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Mark Harrison wrote:
>
> Hi Kurt,
>
> You are refering to 4551 Austrian Federal Republic Locomotive which in
> the US is called the Crocodile engine (for some reason?).
It's a bit of a misnomer, but it looks a lot like the SWISS railways
loco which was nicknamed the Crocodile by the swiss, I guess because it
was green and because it had long snouts.
> It contained a
> number of unique pieces so building one from spares would be near to
> impossible.
Well, ALMOST unique pieces. :-) To build one, you'd need to get not one,
but TWO 4563s to get
the cab fronts and doors, and at least one Metroliner to get the
pantographs. I don't think there is any piece that is unique to that set
only.
Even given that Mark has cornered the market and is going to get a good
price, buying one from him will be cheaper than buying THOSE sets to
rebuild it. :-)
|
|
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John Neal wrote:
>
> If one wanted to be anal about details, Lar, one would have to recognize
> that the cab front on the 4563 has a 2x4 notch in front to allow for the
> headlight cord to pass, whereas the 4551 does not, which would make them
> unique:)
Whoa! Really. It's not done with a separate brick? Having two parts that
large rather than one seems rather unlike TLG parts designer.
I believe you but I have to go look at mine anyway, just to marvel!
|
|
| |
If one wanted to be anal about details, Lar, one would have to recognize
that the cab front on the 4563 has a 2x4 notch in front to allow for the
headlight cord to pass, whereas the 4551 does not, which would make them
unique:)
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Mark Harrison wrote:
> >
> > Hi Kurt,
> >
> > You are refering to 4551 Austrian Federal Republic Locomotive which in
> > the US is called the Crocodile engine (for some reason?).
>
> It's a bit of a misnomer, but it looks a lot like the SWISS railways
> loco which was nicknamed the Crocodile by the swiss, I guess because it
> was green and because it had long snouts.
>
> > It contained a
> > number of unique pieces so building one from spares would be near to
> > impossible.
>
> Well, ALMOST unique pieces. :-) To build one, you'd need to get not one,
> but TWO 4563s to get
> the cab fronts and doors, and at least one Metroliner to get the
> pantographs. I don't think there is any piece that is unique to that set
> only.
>
> Even given that Mark has cornered the market and is going to get a good
> price, buying one from him will be cheaper than buying THOSE sets to
> rebuild it. :-)
|
|
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <36B8BDBD.3A7CD23A@voyager.net>...
>
>
> John Neal wrote:
> >
> > If one wanted to be anal about details, Lar, one would have to recognize
> > that the cab front on the 4563 has a 2x4 notch in front to allow for the
> > headlight cord to pass, whereas the 4551 does not, which would make them
> > unique:)
>
> Whoa! Really. It's not done with a separate brick? Having two parts that
> large rather than one seems rather unlike TLG parts designer.
>
> I believe you but I have to go look at mine anyway, just to marvel!
There are at least 2 variants of that piece. I can't remember the details
off-hand, but I have 2 4563's one of which has one type, and the other the
other type. The instructions are also different. If anyone's interested I'll
dig out the details...
Huw
|
|
| |
Huw Millington wrote:
> There are at least 2 variants of that piece. I can't remember the details
> off-hand, but I have 2 4563's one of which has one type, and the other the
> other type. The instructions are also different. If anyone's interested I'll
> dig out the details...
>
> Huw
YES PLEASE!
This seems fodder for Matt Bates's site... this piece is used in only
two sets and comes in two versions?? How fascinating. How often does
THAT happen?
|
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Mark Harrison writes:
> Hi Kurt,
>
> You are refering to 4551 Austrian Federal Republic Locomotive which in
> the US is called the Crocodile engine (for some reason?). I have scoured
> every toy store in Australia for these sort after engines and
> accummulated 17 of them which I have been selling on the American
> market. I believe this set was never readily available in the US and is
> a must have for all those train maniacs like myself. It contained a
> number of unique pieces so building one from spares would be near to
> impossible.
>
> Mark H.
>
>
> Kurt Eilers wrote:
> >
> > I would like to find an Austrian Rail Car. Would like to have new,
> > unopened but will consider opened with instructions, all pieces and
> > realistic price.
> >
> > Reply to me directly.
> >
> > keilers@uswest.net
Do you still have some. open or not What would be the price for shipping to
Canada?
Martin
mlegault@nortelnetworks.com
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|
| |
Hi. I've seen the question of why the 4551 is referred to as
"crocodile" posted a couple times so here's a little background...
Lego set #4551, while not prototype, bears a striking resemblance to the
Austrian Federal Railways class 1020 electric locomotive (see
"http://fleischmann.com/marklin/m88221.html" for a miniature bearing the
paint scheme). The prototype was more orange than red however (yes, it
would have been nice if TLG had introduced orange bricks seven years
earlier). Forty seven of the class 1020 operated in Austria after
1945. These locomotives were manufactured in Germany as the popular
class E94 before the war for the most part (later reclassified by the
Deutsch Bundesbahn in Germany as DB class 194). The E94 possessed
features similar to the popular Swiss class Be 6/8III in that it was
powerful, articulated and had two coupled power trucks with a cab in
between. The Swiss Be 6/8III was nicknamed "crocodile" because the
long, dark green hoods covering it's power trucks were reminiscent of a
crocodile. Because of the similarities between the locomotives, the
German class E94 became known as the "German Crocodile." For more
information on the prototype visit
"http://www.dlc.fi/~lassiluu/194eng.htm".
Later, the Lego "class" 4551 retained the nickname "crocodile" although
the published set name varied by country. The United States SAH called
it "Trolley Locomotive" which doesn't quite capture the power and
majesty of this magnificent machine which operated in revenue service
for it's original owners for over half a century. But then again we
have to remember that this set is a toy and wasn't intended for serious
railway enthusiasts.
-Brian Williams
----------------------------------
Mark Harrison wrote:
> You are refering to 4551 Austrian Federal Republic Locomotive which in
> the US is called the Crocodile engine (for some reason?). I have
Mark Harrison wrote:
>
> Hi Kurt,
>
> You are refering to 4551 Austrian Federal Republic Locomotive which in
> the US is called the Crocodile engine (for some reason?). I have scoured
> every toy store in Australia for these sort after engines and
> accummulated 17 of them which I have been selling on the American
> market. I believe this set was never readily available in the US and is
> a must have for all those train maniacs like myself. It contained a
> number of unique pieces so building one from spares would be near to
> impossible.
>
> Mark H.
>
> Kurt Eilers wrote:
> >
> > I would like to find an Austrian Rail Car. Would like to have new,
> > unopened but will consider opened with instructions, all pieces and
> > realistic price.
> >
> > Reply to me directly.
> >
> > keilers@uswest.net
|
|
| |
Hi. I've seen the question of why the 4551 is referred to as
"crocodile" posted a couple times so here's a little background...
Lego set #4551, while not prototype, bears a striking resemblance to the
Austrian Federal Railways class 1020 electric locomotive (see
"http://fleischmann.com/marklin/m88221.html" for a miniature bearing the
paint scheme). The prototype was more orange than red however (yes, it
would have been nice if TLG had introduced orange bricks seven years
earlier). Forty seven of the class 1020 operated in Austria after
1945. These locomotives were manufactured in Germany as the popular
class E94 before the war for the most part (later reclassified by the
Deutsch Bundesbahn in Germany as DB class 194). The E94 possessed
features similar to the popular Swiss class Be 6/8III in that it was
powerful, articulated and had two coupled power trucks with a cab in
between. The Swiss Be 6/8III was nicknamed "crocodile" because the
long, dark green hoods covering it's power trucks were reminiscent of a
crocodile. Because of the similarities between the locomotives, the
German class E94 became known as the "German Crocodile." For more
information on the prototype visit
http://www.dlc.fi/~lassiluu/194eng.htm".
Later, the Lego "class" 4551 retained the nickname "crocodile" although
the published set name varied by country. The United States SAH called
it "Trolley Locomotive" which doesn't quite capture the power and
majesty of this magnificent machine which operated in revenue service
for it's original owners for over half a century. But then again we
have to remember that this set is a toy and wasn't intended for serious
railway enthusiasts.
-Brian Williams
----------------------------------
Mark Harrison wrote:
> ... You are refering to 4551 Austrian Federal Republic Locomotive which in
> the US is called the Crocodile engine (for some reason?). I ...
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|
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> Lego set #4551, while not prototype, bears a striking resemblance to the
> Austrian Federal Railways class 1020 electric locomotive (see
> "http://fleischmann.com/marklin/m88221.html" for a miniature bearing the
> paint scheme). The prototype was more orange than red however (yes, it
> would have been nice if TLG had introduced orange bricks seven years
> earlier).
The Great Book of Trains by Brian Hollingsworth & Arthur Cook
has a photo of No. 1020.14 in red with white stripe and a 2 page
drawing of No. 1020.38 also red with white stripe. There is also an
photo of No. 1020.41 in the colour of dark green.
Allan...
The Great Book of Trains
Brian Hollingsworth & Arthur Cook
Featuring 310 locomotives shown in over 160 full-colour illustrations
and more than 500 photographs.
414 pages.
ISBN 1-85501-852-7
|
|
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Brian Williams wrote in message <36BA6F61.D6E@ameritech.net>...
> Hi. I've seen the question of why the 4551 is referred to as
> "crocodile" posted a couple times so here's a little background...
>
> Lego set #4551, while not prototype, bears a striking resemblance to the
> Austrian Federal Railways class 1020 electric locomotive (see
> "http://fleischmann.com/marklin/m88221.html" for a miniature bearing the
> paint scheme). The prototype was more orange than red however (yes, it
> would have been nice if TLG had introduced orange bricks seven years
> earlier). Forty seven of the class 1020 operated in Austria after
> 1945. These locomotives were manufactured in Germany as the popular
> class E94 before the war for the most part (later reclassified by the
> Deutsch Bundesbahn in Germany as DB class 194). The E94 possessed
> features similar to the popular Swiss class Be 6/8III in that it was
> powerful, articulated and had two coupled power trucks with a cab in
> between. The Swiss Be 6/8III was nicknamed "crocodile" because the
> long, dark green hoods covering it's power trucks were reminiscent of a
> crocodile. Because of the similarities between the locomotives, the
> German class E94 became known as the "German Crocodile." For more
> information on the prototype visit
> http://www.dlc.fi/~lassiluu/194eng.htm".
If you care to have a look at a LEGO version of the original Swiss green
Crocodile, check out:
http://www.svc.fcj.hvu.nl/brok/legomind/models
and select trains, then crocodile from the menu.
Unfortunately however, our webserver seems to be out of service for the
moment; so you may have to check later.
Eric Brok
Visit LEGO ON MY MIND:
http://www.svc.fcj.hvu.nl/brok/legomind
Mindstorms/Mind Control section:
http://www.svc.fcj.hvu.nl/brok/legomind/robo
Dutch section:
http://www.svc.fcj.hvu.nl/brok/legomind/nl
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Brian Williams wrote:
Great post
> But then again we
> have to remember that this set is a toy and wasn't intended for serious
> railway enthusiasts.
But I disagree with the above. :-) How serious did you want me to be??
:-)
The 4551 is one of the finest 9V sets (I put it right behind metroliner)
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"you keep using that word...."
>
> seriously thinking of buying the Rail Car and need to make a good decision.
> Let me know if you find out anything else. Maybe just post it here in
> Lugnet.
>
> Kurt
>
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John Neal wrote
> "you keep using that word...."
> > seriously thinking of buying the Rail Car
Railcar (all one word) is used in Brit practice to refer to an
engine-and-carriage (passenger car) all in one combination. Usually
diesel. They were in use quite early - before WWII I think - on the GWR
(not a GWR buff myself, so I may have the time period wrong). The
crocodile engine under discussion wouldn't qualify as a railcar though.
Kevin Wilson
Vancouver, BC
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I too have both variants of 4563, although I only have instructions for 1
version.
I have both versions of 4551, with instructions.
Jonathon
Huw Millington wrote in message ...
> Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <36B8BDBD.3A7CD23A@voyager.net>...
> >
> >
> > John Neal wrote:
> > >
> > > If one wanted to be anal about details, Lar, one would have to recognize
> > > that the cab front on the 4563 has a 2x4 notch in front to allow for the
> > > headlight cord to pass, whereas the 4551 does not, which would make them
> > > unique:)
> >
> > Whoa! Really. It's not done with a separate brick? Having two parts that
> > large rather than one seems rather unlike TLG parts designer.
> >
> > I believe you but I have to go look at mine anyway, just to marvel!
>
> There are at least 2 variants of that piece. I can't remember the details
> off-hand, but I have 2 4563's one of which has one type, and the other the
> other type. The instructions are also different. If anyone's interested • I'll
> dig out the details...
>
> Huw
>
>
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Subject:
|
HELLO!!!??????
|
Newsgroups:
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lugnet.trains
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Date:
|
Sat, 6 Feb 1999 04:50:35 GMT
|
Reply-To:
|
KEILERS@USWESTspamcake.NET
|
Viewed:
|
1643 times
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(canceled)
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In a situation where f2f contact is not possible (such as here), being as
precise as possible is necessary to insure misunderstandings and unnecessary
flamages don't occur. Just refer to it as 4551 or the name Lego calls it,
not "Rail car" or "Railcar". Sorry I had to play the rail card;)
Kurt Eilers wrote:
> I would like to buy a Railcar not have some sort of history lesson. In
> search of this set only. Please help if you can. Thanks for your help
> though... Ummmm, not to be rude, but this is really what I am looking for.
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Jonathon Goldsworthy wrote:
>
> I too have both variants of 4563, although I only have instructions for 1
> version.
> I have both versions of 4551, with instructions.
>
> Jonathon
Argh. So much for being 9V complete. at least until I check to see what
I have. Maybe I got lucky...
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Kevin Wilson wrote:
>
> John Neal wrote
> > "you keep using that word...."
> > > seriously thinking of buying the Rail Car
>
> Railcar (all one word) is used in Brit practice to refer to an
> engine-and-carriage (passenger car) all in one combination.
US practice as well. Other terms for such a beast are Doodlebug and RDC.
(Rail Diesel Car), both of which originally referred to the products of
a specific firm. The notion is that one of these units can take the
place of a whole train, although trailers are sometimes added for extra
capacity.
Contrast with a "power car" which is part of a larger train, has power
AND accomodations, but does not connote completeness. The 4558
metroliner, for example, has two power cars, one at each end (although
one is a dummy, or unpowered, model of a powered prototype).
Contrast also with Street Car or Trolley, both of which fit the
definition, but are terms for electric rolling stock, and were not used
in freight railroad service much.
Lego has never done a model of a rail car, or a street car to my
knowledge, but has done lots of power cars (at least two of the 77xx
series passenger train primary models include power cars)
The 4551 model is a model of a locomotive. There is no accomodation for
paying passengers or freight.
Kurt should be forgiven for not knowing the parlance originally, but I
do wish that now that he has had the correct terminology pointed out,
several times, that he would begin using it.
Please, Kurt, be precise. Better communication will result and some of
us will respect you more for it.
++Lar
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Kurt Eilers wrote:
>
> I would like to buy a Railcar not have some sort of history lesson. In
> search of this set only. Please help if you can.
I have several but even if I intended to sell, I shan't sell to someone
that isn't interested in the correct terminology.
> Thanks for your help though... Ummmm, not to be rude,
Rather late for that, I'd say.
> but this is really what I am looking for.
And the reason we are discussing this, strange as it may seem to you, as
you seem concerned with your own desire only, is to increase the
knowledge of the group as a whole, not just for your benefit. Please try
to keep the spirit of the internet in mind in future, thanks. Multi way
flows of information increase the knowledge of all. Note also that we
are in lugnet.trains only now, and NOT market... so we are very very
much on topic.
If you don't wish to learn more about the prototype, by all means feel
free to ignore the thread, but do refrain from making rude remarks if
you can, thanks. John N. had told me offline that you were rather abrupt
and to let it go but I think you may've really stepped over the line
now. I can't speak for others but I did not find your behaviour
appropriate. In future you may or may not want to take that into
consideration.
++Lar
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No, not what you think!!! I forgot something that interested readers may
find interesting. And uninteresting (1) readers should feel free to push
N now.
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Contrast with a "power car" which is part of a larger train, has power
> AND accomodations, but does not connote completeness. The 4558
> metroliner, for example, has two power cars, one at each end (although
> one is a dummy, or unpowered, model of a powered prototype).
Note that "dummy" in model parlance means exactly the opposite of what
it means in real parlance.
In model parlance, a "dummy" is a non functional or essentially
decorative item.
A dummy coupler is a decorative coupler that does not actually function.
Not seen in LEGO much.
A dummy truck is an unpowered model of a powered truck. For instance the
4551 has one powered truck/articulation point and one unpowered (the
powered one is on the right in this image:
http://www.lugnet.com/pause/search/?query=4551)
A dummy locomotive, or a dummy power car (in the case of the 4558) is an
entire unit that is unpowered but is a model of a powered unit. For
instance the 4558 has a dummy power car (which is on the left in this
image: http://www.lugnet.com/pause/search/?query=4558 )
(2)
In real railroad parlance the term dummy is much less used. The one
place I know of it was in early elevated/street railway usage. (circa
1880, pre electrification) In that usage, a "dummy locomotive" is a
small steam engine fitted with body work to make it look like an
unpowered unit, that is, a coach! This was done, apparently, to avoid
scaring the horses of the time. Not very successfully.
++Lar
1 - er, I mean uninterested readers, of course
2 - Now, of course, my as built models of both 4551 and 4558 have the
dummy trucks replaced with powered trucks, making the 4551 two truck
powered, and the 4558 with both power cars powered. But I like the extra
power that more motors bring. Hang the expense!
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Larry P wrote
> In real railroad parlance the term dummy is much less used. The one
> place I know of it was in early elevated/street railway usage. (circa
> 1880, pre electrification) In that usage, a "dummy locomotive" is a
> small steam engine fitted with body work to make it look like an
> unpowered unit, that is, a coach! This was done, apparently, to avoid
> scaring the horses of the time. Not very successfully.
LOL! I can just see the dummy "coach", puffing surreptitiously as it
trundles along the elevated tracks, with every horse on the road belwo
rearing and shying as it passes.
Kevin
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I have posted details at
http://www.pncl.co.uk/~huw/lego/temp
I'm sure I posted this message on Friday, but I can't see where it went,
what with the reply-to's being all over the place on this thread!
Huw
Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <36BDBA06.8C10F975@voyager.net>...
>
>
> Jonathon Goldsworthy wrote:
> >
> > I too have both variants of 4563, although I only have instructions for 1
> > version.
> > I have both versions of 4551, with instructions.
> >
> > Jonathon
>
> Argh. So much for being 9V complete. at least until I check to see what
> I have. Maybe I got lucky...
|
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Jacob Sparre Andersen wrote:
>
> Larry Pieniazek (lar@voyager.net) wrote:
>
> > Lego has never done a model of a rail car, or a street car to my
> > knowledge, but has done lots of power cars (at least two of the 77xx
> > series passenger train primary models include power cars)
>
> I know we can say many ugly things about 4559, but isn't it
> a rail car?
I would tend to say not, as to me, the defining characteristic of a
railcar (or a street car, for that matter) is that it has two trucks
(rather than articulated the way the 4559 lead unit is) and that it
contains the entire "stuff" of a passenger train in one package.
> Non-LEGO examples of rail cars are (if I understand the
> terminology correctly):
>
> - ER-IR4
> <URL:http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/dk/electric/ER-IR4/pix.html>
Hmm.. these have tested in the US, I think. That huge rubber front is
very distinctive, and would be fun to model. All the pictures show at
least two units, though. In the last picture, is the center (not the red
end) articulated? it's hard to tell) If one unit can't operate by itself
I would tend to say "not a rail car" in the US sense.
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Larry Pieniazek (lar@voyager.net) wrote:
> > - ER-IR4
> > <URL:http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/dk/electric/ER-IR4/pix.html>
>
> Hmm.. these have tested in the US, I think. That huge rubber front is
> very distinctive, and would be fun to model. All the pictures show at
> least two units, though. In the last picture, is the center (not the red
> end) articulated? it's hard to tell) If one unit can't operate by itself
> I would tend to say "not a rail car" in the US sense.
The listed units can all operate on their own.
It was the IC3 (three box diesel version of the IR4) that
were tested in the US. There are pictures from the test runs
at
<URL:http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/dk/diesel/dmu/MF-IC3/AMTRAK/pix.html>.
Play well,
Jacob
----------------------------------------------
-- E-mail: Jacob.Sparre.Andersen@risoe.dk --
-- Web...: <URL:http://hugin.risoe.dk/> --
----------------------------------------------
LEGO: MOC+++c TO+++(6543) TC+++(8880) AQ+++ BV-- #++ S LS++ A-/+ YB72m
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