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-America under Attack-
Here are some of the up-to-date figures current as of this moment.
Today in history is being compared to that of Pearl Harbor and the JFK
assassination in the magnitude of national carnage.
From online news organizations:
· Planes hit the World Trade Center in New York City. Both towers collapsed.
· A plane hit the Pentagon, part of which collapsed.
· "American Airlines told CNN that it lost two planes in "tragic accidents:"
Flight 11 from Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard and Flight 77
from Washington Dulles airport with 58 passengers and six crew aboard. Both
planes were en route to Los Angeles." CNN
· A United Airlines flight from Newark, NJ to San Francisco crashed near
Somerset, Pennsylvania.
· All flights have been grounded for the first time ever.
· Government buildings are being evacuated.
Current assessment:
· Cell phones still aren't working.
· There are still lines for public pay phones.
· If you reach a loved one in the area, don't assume the worst. It's VERY
hard to contact people right now.
· People on the streets are not panicking. They're handling this tough time
very admirably.
· People who live outside Manhattan are having a hard time leaving the City
because the tunnels and bridges were closed earlier.
Present bush is currently residing at an Air Force base and is deliberating
between returning to the White House (despite warnings from the Secret
Service) or heading to the NORAD command post in Colorado.
*****************************
But I just have ONE question…
Wasn’t their 8 Commercial Plaines hijacked early today?!?
(2 hit the WTC, 1 hit the pentagon, one crashed on-route to the Pentagon, 4
more unaccounted for?)
4 unaccounted for Commercial Plaines?
Let up pray for the survivors.
Sincerely,
--==RiçhärÐ==--
You can reach me @
Shroud_of_Kung_Fu@Hotmail.com
. -Lego good, Canada great-®
http://www.suave.net/~dave/crash.html
Images courtesy of David Eaton
"Freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward, and freedom
will be defended... President Bush.
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In lugnet.general, Richard Noeckel writes:
> -America under Attack-
> *****************************
> But I just have ONE question?
> Wasn?t their 8 Commercial Plaines hijacked early today?!?
> (2 hit the WTC, 1 hit the pentagon, one crashed on-route to the Pentagon, 4
> more unaccounted for?)
> 4 unaccounted for Commercial Plaines?
Various news sources have reported that all domestic flights have landed and
are accounted for.
(Early in the day there were reports of unaccounted for flights.)
Julie
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I find this all so amazing, they claimed the buildings were built to
withstand a 707 hitting them! I personaly watched BOTH towers colapse LIVE
on tv. i missed the pentagon partical colapse my 2 minutes. I've also head
that they are actully landing planes in the US at Sawyer International up
here in da UP of michigan, but there's nothing on TV about it yet.
Josh
(who thought today was going to be normal...:-( )
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In lugnet.general, Josh Baakko writes:
> I find this all so amazing, they claimed the buildings were built to
> withstand a 707 hitting them! I personaly watched BOTH towers colapse LIVE
> on tv. i missed the pentagon partical colapse my 2 minutes. I've also head
> that they are actully landing planes in the US at Sawyer International up
> here in da UP of michigan, but there's nothing on TV about it yet.
>
> Josh
> (who thought today was going to be normal...:-( )
Josh
they both survived the initial impact without a problem, the resulting
uncontrolled fire and damage afterwards is what unfortunately brought down
both towers.
considering the damage and the attack in 1993, I am surprised they lasted as
long as they did.
Milissa and I too watched them fall on live TV. unbelievable!
Our prayers and sorrow are with them all.
Mark
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In lugnet.general, Mark & Milissa Millère writes:
> In lugnet.general, Josh Baakko writes:
> > I find this all so amazing, they claimed the buildings were built to
> > withstand a 707 hitting them! I personaly watched BOTH towers colapse LIVE
> > on tv. i missed the pentagon partical colapse my 2 minutes. I've also head
> > that they are actully landing planes in the US at Sawyer International up
> > here in da UP of michigan, but there's nothing on TV about it yet.
> >
> > Josh
> > (who thought today was going to be normal...:-( )
>
> Josh
>
> they both survived the initial impact without a problem, the resulting
> uncontrolled fire and damage afterwards is what unfortunately brought down
> both towers.
>
> considering the damage and the attack in 1993, I am surprised they lasted as
> long as they did.
>
> Milissa and I too watched them fall on live TV. unbelievable!
>
> Our prayers and sorrow are with them all.
>
> Mark
Well i've heard now that 2 plane DID land at Sawyer International, one with
a passenger that is now in custody at the Marquette County Jail. less then
a week ago, the Marquette county board was trying to get funding to re-open
a former air force control tower, so that planes of this type would be
allowed to land there, they got their wish, in a bad way, but this airport
was a fromer airbase, so it CAN handle the planes. One plane was a
Northwest Airlines flight, the other a Sun Country. The Sun Country plane
took off from JFK in NY, and the pilot wanted sequrity, because, as i said
before, there was a unruly (sp?) passenger.
Josh
(who thought today would be a normal day :-( )
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In lugnet.general, Josh Baakko writes:
> I find this all so amazing, they claimed the buildings were built to
> withstand a 707 hitting them! I personaly watched BOTH towers colapse LIVE
> on tv. i missed the pentagon partical colapse my 2 minutes. I've also head
> that they are actully landing planes in the US at Sawyer International up
> here in da UP of michigan, but there's nothing on TV about it yet.
>
> Josh
> (who thought today was going to be normal...:-( )
I am not an expert on this, but I heard on TV that no building can whitstand
such prolonged burnings without partial or total collapse. My dad told me
that the concrete turns to dust at 1200ºC, and then steel melts down,
causing structural failure.
I hoped something could have been made to save those trapped inside, but
that was unfortunately not possible; I watched horrified the whole time from
14:07 Portuguese time until the collapse, but nothing happened...
This is a tragedy. For us all, as citizens of this world, and especially to
those who lost their loved ones. If I were religious, I'd pray. I am not, so
the only thing I can do right now is ask what I can do to help.
Pedro (still stunned, more adequate words fail me)
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In lugnet.general, Pedro Silva writes:
> In lugnet.general, Josh Baakko writes:
> > I find this all so amazing, they claimed the buildings were built to
> > withstand a 707 hitting them! I personally watched BOTH towers collapse LIVE
> I am not an expert on this, but I heard on TV that no building can withstand
> such prolonged burnings without partial or total collapse. My dad told me
> that the concrete turns to dust at 1200ºC, and then steel melts down,
> causing structural failure.
> Mark wrote:
> They both survived the initial impact without a problem, the resulting
> uncontrolled fire and damage afterwards is what unfortunately brought down
> both towers. Considering the damage and the attack in 1993, I am surprised they
> lasted as long as they did.
Interesting...
But this is what really bothers me.
I can see the World Trade Center being taken-out, but not the Pentagon?!?
Isn't there a -'no-fly-zone'- surrounding this area and the White House?
I mean, where are all the response jets.
(Not even an active counter measure was initiated at the time.)
Yes, I've heard that F-16 were dispatched later on, but aren't their units
designed for rapid response for any intrusion into this specialized
government area.
Not even a military Helicopter on a near by landing pad attempted to intercept.
Surely an Apache/Cobra (or whatever) could have sprung into action and used
its mini guns to disable the commercial jet?
It’s easy to engage an external threat to Washington.
(Missile or foreign attack squadron coming over seas.)
But I guess any local passenger jets pose a real problem…
Another note…
Once everyone talks about Terrorism they think of foreign invaders.
BUT, what if these attackers were from an internal group.
Similar to the events of Oklahoma.
Just a lugubrious thought. :(
--==Richard==--
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In lugnet.general, Richard Noeckel writes:
> Interesting...
>
> But this is what really bothers me.
> I can see the World Trade Center being taken-out, but not the Pentagon?!?
>
> Isn't there a -'no-fly-zone'- surrounding this area and the White House?
> I mean, where are all the response jets.
> (Not even an active counter measure was initiated at the time.)
> Yes, I've heard that F-16 were dispatched later on, but aren't their units
> designed for rapid response for any intrusion into this specialized
> government area.
> Not even a military Helicopter on a near by landing pad attempted to intercept.
> Surely an Apache/Cobra (or whatever) could have sprung into action and used
> its mini guns to disable the commercial jet?
Nope--the Pentagon is on the approach corridor to Reagan
airport. It's close enough, anyways, that there's too little
time between deviation from the corridor to impact. The jet's
moving about 300mph--it takes time to scramble a fighter/
gunship.
Also, consider the difficulty of making a call like that--
shooting down an airliner with 70+ people on it?
> It’s easy to engage an external threat to Washington.
> (Missile or foreign attack squadron coming over seas.)
> But I guess any local passenger jets pose a real problem…
See above. They're allowed to fly there--it's not like it's
a jet with foreign markings. It's also full of Americans,
which makes shooting it down the last resort among last
resorts.
> Once everyone talks about Terrorism they think of foreign invaders.
> BUT, what if these attackers were from an internal group.
> Similar to the events of Oklahoma.
> Just a lugubrious thought. :(
This is what I said. I've already begun hearing reports from
NYC of random violence against people believed to be "the enemy".
best
LFB
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In lugnet.general, Lindsay Frederick Braun writes:
> In lugnet.general, Richard Noeckel writes:
> > Interesting...
> >
> > But this is what really bothers me.
> > I can see the World Trade Center being taken-out, but not the Pentagon?!?
> >
> > Isn't there a -'no-fly-zone'- surrounding this area and the White House?
> > I mean, where are all the response jets.
> > (Not even an active counter measure was initiated at the time.)
> > Yes, I've heard that F-16 were dispatched later on, but aren't their units
> > designed for rapid response for any intrusion into this specialized
> > government area.
> > Not even a military Helicopter on a near by landing pad attempted to intercept.
> > Surely an Apache/Cobra (or whatever) could have sprung into action and used
> > its mini guns to disable the commercial jet?
>
> Nope--the Pentagon is on the approach corridor to Reagan
> airport. It's close enough, anyways, that there's too little
> time between deviation from the corridor to impact. The jet's
> moving about 300mph--it takes time to scramble a fighter/
> gunship.
>
> Also, consider the difficulty of making a call like that--
> shooting down an airliner with 70+ people on it?
There is a no fly zone direcly above the pentagon, "class B airspace" the
highest level of restricted air. the plane getting shot down would/ could
have saved a few lives, maybe not the passengers, but people on the ground.
Josh
>
> > It’s easy to engage an external threat to Washington.
> > (Missile or foreign attack squadron coming over seas.)
> > But I guess any local passenger jets pose a real problem…
>
> See above. They're allowed to fly there--it's not like it's
> a jet with foreign markings. It's also full of Americans,
> which makes shooting it down the last resort among last
> resorts.
>
> > Once everyone talks about Terrorism they think of foreign invaders.
> > BUT, what if these attackers were from an internal group.
> > Similar to the events of Oklahoma.
> > Just a lugubrious thought. :(
>
> This is what I said. I've already begun hearing reports from
> NYC of random violence against people believed to be "the enemy".
>
> best
>
> LFB
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To clarify a few things...
> Isn't there a -'no-fly-zone'- surrounding this area and the White House?
> I mean, where are all the response jets.
Yes there is a no fly zone over most of D.C., however the Pentagon is in the
direct flight path for Dulles International Airport. This posses the risk
of something like this happening.
> (Not even an active counter measure was initiated at the time.)
> Yes, I've heard that F-16 were dispatched later on, but aren't their units
> designed for rapid response for any intrusion into this specialized
> government area.
> Not even a military Helicopter on a near by landing pad attempted to intercept.
> Surely an Apache/Cobra (or whatever) could have sprung into action and used
> its mini guns to disable the commercial jet?
It is very difficult to take down a large commercial jumbo jet. Taking into
all the accounts from the Media and also other info I have attained from
other reliable sources, the plane took off and then proceded to turn right
around and ram right into the Pentagon. There is not much fighters or any
"Quick Response Squad" could have done. It was literally a surprise attack.
No indication that anything was the matter until the last second.
> It’s easy to engage an external threat to Washington.
> (Missile or foreign attack squadron coming over seas.)
> But I guess any local passenger jets pose a real problem…
That is the real problem isn't it. Where do we draw the line for protection
of the public and the need to carry on with a normal flow of air traffic.
However this is a discussion for another discussion group and another time.
Nate
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Well, the latest:
Apparently a truckload of explosives, discovered under the
George Washington Bridge, has been successfully stopped from
exploding. Two people are in custody. (This from CBS News.)
It appears there was more planned.
LFB
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In lugnet.general, Richard Noeckel writes:
> In lugnet.general, Pedro Silva writes:
> > In lugnet.general, Josh Baakko writes:
> > > I find this all so amazing, they claimed the buildings were built to
> > > withstand a 707 hitting them! I personally watched BOTH towers collapse LIVE
>
> > I am not an expert on this, but I heard on TV that no building can withstand
> > such prolonged burnings without partial or total collapse. My dad told me
> > that the concrete turns to dust at 1200ºC, and then steel melts down,
> > causing structural failure.
>
> > Mark wrote:
> > They both survived the initial impact without a problem, the resulting
> > uncontrolled fire and damage afterwards is what unfortunately brought down
> > both towers. Considering the damage and the attack in 1993, I am surprised they
> > lasted as long as they did.
>
> Interesting...
>
>
> But this is what really bothers me.
> I can see the World Trade Center being taken-out, but not the Pentagon?!?
It's obvious there's some sort of strategy here. What I've formualted is
that some sort of foreign bad man/evil govt wants to make us look like
clowns. The targets put the government to almost an utter halt. The stock
markets is closed. Schools out tommorow. What they tried to do worked. Now
they're dancing around in the streets happily parading because they killed
innocent people.
It's got a biger effect on me becuase I live 24 miles from it. People's
parents work there, and got hurt (maybe died). That's why the issue is
bigger here.
> Isn't there a -'no-fly-zone'- surrounding this area and the White House?
Yes, but a commercial plane near Regan National would not generate immediate
response as would a UFO or a Mig-16
> I mean, where are all the response jets.
Snooze button? no idea.
> (Not even an active counter measure was initiated at the time.)
> Yes, I've heard that F-16 were dispatched later on, but aren't their units
> designed for rapid response for any intrusion into this specialized
> government area.
> Not even a military Helicopter on a near by landing pad attempted to intercept.
> Surely an Apache/Cobra (or whatever) could have sprung into action and used
> its mini guns to disable the commercial jet?
>
> It’s easy to engage an external threat to Washington.
> (Missile or foreign attack squadron coming over seas.)
> But I guess any local passenger jets pose a real problem…
Of course, you've already got them there (no risk). Simple to hijack. The
plan was well formualted.
> Another note…
> Once everyone talks about Terrorism they think of foreign invaders.
> BUT, what if these attackers were from an internal group.
> Similar to the events of Oklahoma.
> Just a lugubrious thought. :(
DOubt it. More like the white house or something would be attacked.
>
> --==Richard==--
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Just got an email from Sid. He's OK.
LFB
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My dad had to go to the Pentagon today (the square now). He's OK but he
pretty much whitnessed the plane crash first hand. He was on the parking
deck entrance. What a terrible day for us all.
> i missed the pentagon partical colapse my 2 minutes. I've also head
> that they are actully landing planes in the US at Sawyer International up
> here in da UP of michigan, but there's nothing on TV about it yet.
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Here is a report of what happened on board the plane that crashed in PA. I
found it on http://www.jerrypournelle.com/ tonight.
------------------
Dear Jerry,
Following is a message which my one of my best friends passed along with
permission to distribute to those who might be interested. It fills in the
details that I missed in my original conversation with him and attempted to
relate to you.
Tom has given me permission to distribute the message - please feel free to
post it if you deem it appropriate.
Sincerely,
Art Russell Major, US Army (Retired)
Message Follows:
Today was a tragedy for all of America and to my family, a very personal
one. Lynn and my Niece Liz's husband, Jeremy Glick was on United flight 93
this morning. When the Hijackers took control of flight 93. Jeremy called my
niece who in-turn conferenced him to 911. Jeremy relayed to the police what
was happening as the hijacking unfolded. As our niece Liz listened, Jeremy
told the police there were three Arab terrorists with knives and a large red
box that they claimed contained a bomb. Jeremy tracked the second by second
details and relayed them to the police by phone. After several minutes of
describing the scene, Jeremy and several other passengers decided there was
nothing to lose by rushing the hijackers. Although United Flight 93 crashed
outside of Pittsburgh, with the loss of all souls. Jeremy and the other
patriotic heroes saved the lives of many people on the ground that would
have died if the Arab terrorists had been able to complete their heinous
mission.
Please offer your prayers for all of those who perished or were injured in
this tragic of all days and to our niece Liz Glick and her 2-month-old
child, Emerson, who are left without their loving Husband and Father.
May we remember Jeremy and the other brave souls as heroes, soldiers and
Americans' on United flight 93 whom so gallantry gave their lives to save
many others.
Lynn, our four adult children and I are headed to New York to be with our
family during this time of great sadness
All of my best,
Tom
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In lugnet.general, Richard Noeckel writes:
> -America under Attack-
>
> Here are some of the up-to-date figures current as of this moment.
>
> Today in history is being compared to that of Pearl Harbor and the JFK
> assassination in the magnitude of national carnage.
>
> From online news organizations:
>
> · Planes hit the World Trade Center in New York City. Both towers collapsed.
> · A plane hit the Pentagon, part of which collapsed.
> · "American Airlines told CNN that it lost two planes in "tragic accidents:"
> Flight 11 from Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard and Flight 77
> from Washington Dulles airport with 58 passengers and six crew aboard. Both
> planes were en route to Los Angeles." CNN
> · A United Airlines flight from Newark, NJ to San Francisco crashed near
> Somerset, Pennsylvania.
> · All flights have been grounded for the first time ever.
> · Government buildings are being evacuated.
>
> Current assessment:
>
> · Cell phones still aren't working.
> · There are still lines for public pay phones.
> · If you reach a loved one in the area, don't assume the worst. It's VERY
> hard to contact people right now.
> · People on the streets are not panicking. They're handling this tough time
> very admirably.
> · People who live outside Manhattan are having a hard time leaving the City
> because the tunnels and bridges were closed earlier.
>
> Present bush is currently residing at an Air Force base and is deliberating
> between returning to the White House (despite warnings from the Secret
> Service) or heading to the NORAD command post in Colorado.
>
> *****************************
> But I just have ONE question…
> Wasn’t their 8 Commercial Plaines hijacked early today?!?
> (2 hit the WTC, 1 hit the pentagon, one crashed on-route to the Pentagon, 4
> more unaccounted for?)
> 4 unaccounted for Commercial Plaines?
>
>
> Let up pray for the survivors.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> --==RiçhärÐ==--
>
>
> You can reach me @
> Shroud_of_Kung_Fu@Hotmail.com
>
>
> . -Lego good, Canada great-®
Actually, there are estimated as many as 50,000 dead. This is probably the
highest figure. Prayers should be prayed especially for the over 50 missing
police officers and over 200 fire fighters who most probably gave their lives
in order to try to rescue and save the people in the world trade center.
I don't know what I can and can't say at this moment, but I am a member of
the New York State National Guard, who is going to deploy to New York City
on most likely Friday. Length of time in undetermined. So that might mean
my brickwarz participation (in Newmarket, Ontario) would be negligible.
Regardless, let us remember this, it is going to take a whole lot of time
to clean up after this terrorist disaster. 2 101 story buildings collapse into
5 to 5 1/2 stories of rubble, with many fellow human beings inside. A
tragedy....
Regretfully, and prayerfully yours,
Benjamin Medinets
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In lugnet.general, Benjamin Medinets writes:
> I don't know what I can and can't say at this moment, but I am a member of
> the New York State National Guard, who is going to deploy to New York City
> on most likely Friday. Length of time in undetermined. So that might mean
> my brickwarz participation (in Newmarket, Ontario) would be negligible.
>
> Regardless, let us remember this, it is going to take a whole lot of time
> to clean up after this terrorist disaster. 2 101 story buildings collapse into
> 5 to 5 1/2 stories of rubble, with many fellow human beings inside. A
> tragedy....
>
> Regretfully, and prayerfully yours,
PERSONAL:
Benjamin,
Good luck...stay safe...
And thank you...
Matt
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In lugnet.general, Benjamin Medinets writes:
> I don't know what I can and can't say at this moment, but I am a member of
> the New York State National Guard, who is going to deploy to New York City
> on most likely Friday. Length of time in undetermined. So that might mean
> my brickwarz participation (in Newmarket, Ontario) would be negligible.
>
> Regardless, let us remember this, it is going to take a whole lot of time
> to clean up after this terrorist disaster. 2 101 story buildings collapse into
> 5 to 5 1/2 stories of rubble, with many fellow human beings inside. A
> tragedy....
>
> Regretfully, and prayerfully yours,
>
> Benjamin Medinets
I completely understand Ben.
Be safe and don’t get hurt in the relief operation.
My thoughts are with you.
Your friend,
-Richard
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I saw what was probably among the most beautiful sights I will ever lay my
eyes upon yesterday evening. As I was driving from work to class I saw two
guys atop the hwy 120 overpass on I-694 waving an American flag. It is
wholly admirable to see that degree of courage and strength in this time of
crisis. This attack was meant to crush our hearts but I have solid belief
that we will continue on; we have to. God bless those who have given their
efforts and their lives to this crisis.
Adam
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>
> From online news organizations:
>
> · Planes hit the World Trade Center in New York City. Both towers collapsed.
Also World Trade Center building 7 Collapsed and WTC Building 5 is unstable.
300 F.D.N.Y. Firefighters are missing.
Stueyvesant Highschool has been turned into a temporary Treage(sp?)
and Pace University has become a temporary morgue
> · A plane hit the Pentagon, part of which collapsed.
> · A United Airlines flight from Newark, NJ to San Francisco crashed near
> Somerset, Pennsylvania.
Apparently that plane was headed for Camp David but the passengers attacked
the Hijackers and they Crashed it in Pennsylvania.
> · All flights have been grounded for the first time ever.
> · Government buildings are being evacuated.
Also Disneyland + Disneyworld have been closed,the Sears Tower was
evacuated. As For N.Y.C. Yankee + Shea Stadiums were closed,The Bronx Zoo
was closed Fordham University(on which property my Highschool is on) was
Evacuated and closed. The George Washington Bridge's Lower level is closed
until 4am EST. and NYC Public Schools will open tommorow.
>
> Current assessment:
>
> · Cell phones still aren't working. • Most Cell-Phone Services now work some are still down.
> · There are still lines for public pay phones.
> · If you reach a loved one in the area, don't assume the worst. It's VERY
> hard to contact people right now.
> · People on the streets are not panicking. They're handling this tough time
> very admirably.
> · People who live outside Manhattan are having a hard time leaving the City
> because the tunnels and bridges were closed earlier.
Most of the bridges and tunnels are still closed to inbound traffic allowing
only pedestrian outbound traffic.
Manhattan Island is closed below 14th st.
Local T.V. in N.Y.C. has been knocked out (The Giant antenna on top of the
world trade center gives Local T.V. to us New York Folk)
>
> Present bush is currently residing at an Air Force base and is deliberating
> between returning to the White House (despite warnings from the Secret
> Service) or heading to the NORAD command post in Colorado.
Bush has returned to the White House
P.S.
The U.S.S. Washington ( an Aircraft Carrier) has been patroling the New York
Coast as of Last Night.
F-16's have been Patroling Manhattan and the outer borough airspace all last
night and today
-Cj- "These acts shattered steel, but they cannot dent the steel of American
resolve," -President George W. Bush
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In lugnet.general, Carl Catuogno writes:
>
> Also World Trade Center building 7 Collapsed and WTC Building 5 is unstable.
This
http://au.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/20010913/aapworld/1000336445-269475848.html
seems to indicate building 1 is also unstable.
My guess is all the WTC buildings will have to be demolished, and maybe some
others.
ROSCO
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I threw together simple two banners together using Photoshop and for one of
them I also used MLcad and LDview.
Feel free to put the banners on your own sites and spread them around.
GO here:
http://lostiom.tripod.com
In lugnet.general, Richard Noeckel writes:
> -America under Attack- • [snip]
>
> · Planes hit the World Trade Center in New York City. Both towers collapsed. • [snip]
> Sincerely,
>
> --==RiçhärÐ==--
>
>
[snip]
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