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In lugnet.trains, Timothy Gould wrote:
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Carriages look good although I don’t like the gears too much. Have you
thought about using part 2903 with a 32065 across it to fit the drive rods?
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Sadly those wheels are too big, being 8ft diameter to scale. I did consider the
wheels from the bar code truck (part 6595), though I have them only in white and
light bley so far. I’ve also experimented with model team wheels with tyres.
The cogs are 42mm diameter, 5’3” to scale, where the engine needs 6ft wheels
(48mm), so they’re the closest I’ll get. I probably have historical reasons
too, as I initially used 8-tooth cogs between them on a previous engine, which
is now retired, to guarantee reliable alignment of the wheels. As I improved
reliability of rods, I dispensed with the small cogs.
I wondered about modding some bar code truck-sized wheels by cutting them across
at their thinnest point to make a 1L-wide wheel with the 6 holes for crank pins
- perhaps if I had bought a few technic cranes cheap and had more wheels than I
would ever use for Technic models...
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I made the IR coach into a sort of brake coach/baggage coach. Just made up
the internals as films are rarely consistent anyway.
Tim
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For this first coach I used the 6x4 and 4x4 smooth centred brown plates from the
Sopwith Camel to do wood-panelled compartments, though there’s little point as I
made the roof permanent and the vertically-mounted plates only detach after a
few months of going to shows and shifting boxes around.
John mentions rivet-counting. Well I did put the ventilators on top of the
carriage :-) Sometimes at shows I’ll say to a pedant “count the rivets on
that!”, but only if they’re being unreasonable about the limitations of LEGO
scale modelling.
I also used the macaroni boiler technique on my Thomas and Stepney models:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=742630
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=742629
Notice the 1x2 hinges incorporated to hold the chimney and dome. I think this
technique would be nowhere without the 4x4 round brick for strength! I wished
there were a plate to go with it - so much so that I even drew a sketch of one:
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/mbellis/New-Parts/Designed-Only/Plates/4x4_round_plate.bmp
Mark
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--SNIP--
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Sadly those wheels are too big, being 8ft diameter to scale. I did consider
the wheels from the bar code truck (part 6595), though I have them only in
white and light bley so far. I’ve also experimented with model team wheels
with tyres. The cogs are 42mm diameter, 5’3” to scale, where the engine needs
6ft wheels (48mm), so they’re the closest I’ll get. I probably have
historical reasons too, as I initially used 8-tooth cogs between them on a
previous engine, which is now retired, to guarantee reliable alignment of the
wheels. As I improved reliability of rods, I dispensed with the small cogs.
|
Whoops! For some reason I thought those gears were eight wide.
Tim
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In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
| |
For this first coach I used the 6x4 and 4x4 smooth centred brown plates from
the Sopwith Camel to do wood-panelled compartments, though there’s little
point as I made the roof permanent and the vertically-mounted plates only
detach after a few months of going to shows and shifting boxes around.
John mentions rivet-counting. Well I did put the ventilators on top of the
carriage :-) Sometimes at shows I’ll say to a pedant “count the rivets on
that!”, but only if they’re being unreasonable about the limitations of LEGO
scale modelling.
I also used the macaroni boiler technique on my Thomas and Stepney models:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=742630
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=742629
Notice the 1x2 hinges incorporated to hold the chimney and dome. I think
this technique would be nowhere without the 4x4 round brick for strength! I
wished there were a plate to go with it - so much so that I even drew a
sketch of one:
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/mbellis/New-Parts/Designed-Only/Plates/4x4_round_plate.bmp
Mark
|
Mark,
I’m in the US, but I’m modeling some Thomas and Friends engins and cars. Perhaps
you can explain a bit regarding GB train operation, past and present.
I notice a white lantern, sometimes 2, placed on the front foot plate on many
engines. But other times it’s missing in photos. What is it, and what are the
details of it’s use. Is there a similar light at the back of a engine or train?
US cars have air automatic brakes. Do GB cars? The US also eliminatd the use of
caboose, and now uses a FRED, are brake vans still used. I’ve heard mention of
combination passenger/brake cars (Clarable), could you give a bit more detail?
Mat
|
|
| |
In lugnet.trains, Mathew Clayson wrote:
| |
In lugnet.trains, Mark Bellis wrote:
| |
For this first coach I used the 6x4 and 4x4 smooth centred brown plates from
the Sopwith Camel to do wood-panelled compartments, though there’s little
point as I made the roof permanent and the vertically-mounted plates only
detach after a few months of going to shows and shifting boxes around.
John mentions rivet-counting. Well I did put the ventilators on top of the
carriage :-) Sometimes at shows I’ll say to a pedant “count the rivets on
that!”, but only if they’re being unreasonable about the limitations of LEGO
scale modelling.
I also used the macaroni boiler technique on my Thomas and Stepney models:
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=742630
http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=742629
Notice the 1x2 hinges incorporated to hold the chimney and dome. I think
this technique would be nowhere without the 4x4 round brick for strength! I
wished there were a plate to go with it - so much so that I even drew a
sketch of one:
http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/mbellis/New-Parts/Designed-Only/Plates/4x4_round_plate.bmp
Mark
|
Mark,
I’m in the US, but I’m modeling some Thomas and Friends engines and cars.
Perhaps you can explain a bit regarding GB train operation, past and present.
I notice a white lantern, sometimes 2, placed on the front foot plate on many
engines. But other times it’s missing in photos. What is it, and what are the
details of its use. Is there a similar light at the back of a engine or
train?
|
Until the mid-to-late 50s the headlamps formed a code to denote the type of
train. There were four positions, centre, left and right along the footplate and
top of the smokebox door. See this site
for more info (scroll down a bit for the codes. The different railway companies
had their own variations on the codes. Many of the first generation of diesel
locos had discs on the fronts, replicating the headlamp positions. These discs
folded in half, covering their lamp and their white face. See
here for some examples
After this time there was a move to 4
digit headcodes to display the service code of the train, in the mid Seventies
these went out of use. From the mid Eighties there has been a gradual retrofit
of high intensity headlights, all stock now carries these, previously the lights
in the front were more like marker lights than of any use to the driver.
Every train has to carry a red tail light. On unit trains and locomotives this
is built in, on freight and hauled passenger stock it is a separate lamp fitted
onto a lamp iron (a bracket) From the mid Nineties these have changed to
flashing units, presumably the advent of LEDs has allowed this to provide
greater battery life (not called FREDs here AFAIK).
| |
US cars have air automatic brakes. Do GB cars?
|
All passenger stock has had continuous brakes for at least 100 years (IIRC).
However this was mainly vacuum rather than air brakes, The last thirty years has
seen a move over to air and now all stock is air braked (I think) Until the
Sixties almost all freight stock was unfitted (i.e. handbrakes only), the
exceptions were those used in passenger and express freight trains (fish trains
being an example) Those vehicles which had continuous brakes were vacuum braked.
Again from the Seventies there was a move to get rid of unfitted trains (they
had lower speed limits and required the use of a brake van (similar idea to a
caboose) Most of the unfitted vehicles have now been scrapped due to changes in
traffic patterns, some were vacuum or air braked. Again AFAIK all freight stock
is now air braked.
| |
The US also eliminated the use
of caboose, and now uses a FRED, are brake vans still used.
|
The removal of unfitted or partially fitted trains (trains with a section of
continuously braked vehicles next to the loco) has meant that the brake van has
become obsolete, they are now rare and only used for nuclear flask trains and by
the Permanent Ways (MOW in the US) department. The guard now travels in the rear
cab of the locomotive.
| |
I’ve heard
mention of combination passenger/brake cars (Clarabelle), could you give a
bit more detail?
|
All trains used to have to carry a guard (conductor in the US?) (there are now
quite a few One-Man-Operation services on commuter lines). The guard travelled
in the guards compartment, sometimes this was in a
dedicated vehicle on services
that required a lot of luggage space (mainly express trains), or in a
vehicle with
passenger and luggage space. These were far more common than full brakes (the
dedicated vehicles) as every train has to have one. These vehicles aren’t called
combines in the UK, rather ‘brake first’, ‘brake second’ or ‘brake composite’
(first and second class) (also, further in the past ‘brake third’)
Again things have changed in the last twenty years as almost all passenger
trains are now units, but any loco-hauled services still have to contain a
vehicle with a guard’s compartment. Within the luggage space the guard had a
small office, in the past this would often have had
side lookouts called duckets.
Hope that help
Tim
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|
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In lugnet.trains, Tim David wrote:
| |
Until the mid-to-late 50s the headlamps formed a code to denote the type of
train. There were four positions, centre, left and right along the footplate
and top of the smokebox door. See this site for more info (scroll down a bit for the codes. The different
railway companies had their own variations on the codes. Many of the first
generation of diesel locos had discs on the fronts, replicating the headlamp
positions. These discs folded in half, covering their lamp and their white
face. See here for some
examples
|
| |
Every train has to carry a red tail light. On unit trains and locomotives
this is built in, on freight and hauled passenger stock it is a separate lamp
fitted onto a lamp iron (a bracket) From the mid Nineties these have changed
to flashing units, presumably the advent of LEDs has allowed this to provide
greater battery life (not called FREDs here AFAIK).
| |
US cars have air automatic brakes. Do GB cars?
|
All passenger stock has had continuous brakes for at least 100 years (IIRC).
However this was mainly vacuum rather than air brakes, The last thirty years
has seen a move over to air and now all stock is air braked (I think) Until
the Sixties almost all freight stock was unfitted (i.e. handbrakes only), the
exceptions were those used in passenger and express freight trains (fish
trains being an example) Those vehicles which had continuous brakes were
vacuum braked. Again from the Seventies there was a move to get rid of
unfitted trains (they had lower speed limits and required the use of a brake
van (similar idea to a caboose) Most of the unfitted vehicles have now been
scrapped due to changes in traffic patterns, some were vacuum or air braked.
Again AFAIK all freight stock is now air braked.
|
snipped
Tim,
that was extremely useful, thank you. I’m assuming that Thomas with two coaches
would be a B class, same for Toby with his coach and baggag car. Is the red end
of train light mounted high or low?
Mat
|
|
| |
In lugnet.trains, Mathew Clayson wrote:
| |
In lugnet.trains, Tim David wrote:
| |
Until the mid-to-late 50s the headlamps formed a code to denote the type of
train. There were four positions, centre, left and right along the footplate
and top of the smokebox door. See this site for more info (scroll down a bit for the codes. The different
railway companies had their own variations on the codes. Many of the first
generation of diesel locos had discs on the fronts, replicating the headlamp
positions. These discs folded in half, covering their lamp and their white
face. See here for some
examples
|
| |
Every train has to carry a red tail light. On unit trains and locomotives
this is built in, on freight and hauled passenger stock it is a separate
lamp fitted onto a lamp iron (a bracket) From the mid Nineties these have
changed to flashing units, presumably the advent of LEDs has allowed this to
provide greater battery life (not called FREDs here AFAIK).
| |
US cars have air automatic brakes. Do GB cars?
|
All passenger stock has had continuous brakes for at least 100 years (IIRC).
However this was mainly vacuum rather than air brakes, The last thirty years
has seen a move over to air and now all stock is air braked (I think) Until
the Sixties almost all freight stock was unfitted (i.e. handbrakes only),
the exceptions were those used in passenger and express freight trains (fish
trains being an example) Those vehicles which had continuous brakes were
vacuum braked. Again from the Seventies there was a move to get rid of
unfitted trains (they had lower speed limits and required the use of a brake
van (similar idea to a caboose) Most of the unfitted vehicles have now been
scrapped due to changes in traffic patterns, some were vacuum or air braked.
Again AFAIK all freight stock is now air braked.
|
snipped
Tim,
that was extremely useful, thank you. I’m assuming that Thomas with two
coaches would be a B class, same for Toby with his coach and baggag car. Is
the red end of train light mounted high or low?
|
I would have thought so, although as I said it varied slightly from railway to
railway so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. The red light on the end is
normally mounted just above one of the buffers, i.e. low down to one side.
Tim
PS I was very wordy in my last post and still missed out the whole point of the
guard! The guards van contains a control point for the train brakes, the same
for a brake van in a fitted freight train, in an unfitted freight train the
brake van provided additional (hand) braking power to the loco.
Tim
|
|
| |
In lugnet.trains, Tim David wrote:
| |
In lugnet.trains, Mathew Clayson wrote:
| |
In lugnet.trains, Tim David wrote:
| |
Until the mid-to-late 50s the headlamps formed a code to denote the type of
train. There were four positions, centre, left and right along the
footplate and top of the smokebox door. See
this site for more info (scroll
down a bit for the codes. The different railway companies had their own
variations on the codes. Many of the first generation of diesel locos had
discs on the fronts, replicating the headlamp positions. These discs folded
in half, covering their lamp and their white face. See
here for some examples
|
| |
Every train has to carry a red tail light. On unit trains and locomotives
this is built in, on freight and hauled passenger stock it is a separate
lamp fitted onto a lamp iron (a bracket) From the mid Nineties these have
changed to flashing units, presumably the advent of LEDs has allowed this
to provide greater battery life (not called FREDs here AFAIK).
| |
US cars have air automatic brakes. Do GB cars?
|
All passenger stock has had continuous brakes for at least 100 years
(IIRC). However this was mainly vacuum rather than air brakes, The last
thirty years has seen a move over to air and now all stock is air braked (I
think) Until the Sixties almost all freight stock was unfitted (i.e.
handbrakes only), the exceptions were those used in passenger and express
freight trains (fish trains being an example) Those vehicles which had
continuous brakes were vacuum braked. Again from the Seventies there was a
move to get rid of unfitted trains (they had lower speed limits and
required the use of a brake van (similar idea to a caboose) Most of the
unfitted vehicles have now been scrapped due to changes in traffic
patterns, some were vacuum or air braked. Again AFAIK all freight stock is
now air braked.
|
snipped
Tim,
that was extremely useful, thank you. I’m assuming that Thomas with two
coaches would be a B class, same for Toby with his coach and baggag car. Is
the red end of train light mounted high or low?
|
I would have thought so, although as I said it varied slightly from railway
to railway so I wouldn’t worry about it too much. The red light on the end is
normally mounted just above one of the buffers, i.e. low down to one side.
Tim
PS I was very wordy in my last post and still missed out the whole point of
the guard! The guards van contains a control point for the train brakes, the
same for a brake van in a fitted freight train, in an unfitted freight train
the brake van provided additional (hand) braking power to the loco.
Tim
|
In the illustrations from the original Awdry books, Thomas has his front lamp on
top of the smokebox when pulling a passenger train such as Annie and Clarabel.
This indicates a stopping passenger train, class 2.
Gordon, on the other hand, has two lamps low down, one over each buffer, when he
pulls the express, class 1.
When Thomas pulls a goods train, the lamp positions vary according to the rules.
In the first Awdry books most of his goods trains are unfitted, but that’s not
surprising for the late 1940s. James’ accident, when the trucks pushed him down
the hill, was caused by the failure to stop at the top to pin down the brakes,
as well as wooden brake blocks catching fire.
It’s worth sticking to the prevailing rules for the era (or decade) you’re
modelling, especially as preserved railways seek to present old engines in
correct livery for their original operation. This is one reason why many
British model railways are set in the 60s, since that provides for the widest
range of rolling stock, from steam to early diesels.
Toby’s coach Henrietta would be offended to be called a Baggage Car :-) Toby
usually has the single lamp high up for a stopping passenger train.
The guard has a handbrake plus the ability to break the vacuum in a
vacuum-braked train.
Also, many wagons had through brake pipes even if they were not fitted with
vacuum or air brakes, so that if the train had sufficient brake force overall,
it could have continuous brakes with these wagons in the train and hence go
faster by being of a different class.
Mark
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