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Here's a thought experiment.
Suppose you wanted to design a train set that would be good for drawing
**USA** newcomers into trains. What would you put in it? How much would
you target it costing? Realise that the pricing/profit has to be about
the same margins as we have now, no fair saying "I think a 6 car
Metroliner like set at 49.95 would be great", because that's too easy.
Suppose you wanted to design it to pull mainstream model railroaders in?
Would you change the design any?
You can be as vague or specific as you want. You can sketch out designs,
point to specific MOC models as evoking what you have in mind, name off
cars or engines from past TLG sets, whatever.
Now suppose you have an 8 set budget which you can spend any way you
want (starter sets, accessory packs, buildings, etc). What sets would
you put in it?
What if it was a 20 set budget?
--
Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
- Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
- Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
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Here are my answers.
One single set:
- 1 oval of track with 4 straightaways and power pack (the above is
"Standard track parts")
- Robin Werner's blue ConRail engine, Steve Bliss's Chessie, or my
Red/Yellow diesel
- My black hopper
- A full size boxcar built with the grey sliding doors
- 4543 railroad tractor flatbed car
- My caboose or something very similar
USD $159
8 set budget
Modify the motor to take a third wheel in the center of each side
1- single set, above
2- my 5 unit doublestack with a container crane and skeleton
truck/trailer USD 99
3- a US-ized and reegineered 4551 with dual motors USD 99
4- Metroliner but with an AEM7 engine and 1 window longer cars OR my big
red passenger engine and train (only 3 cars of it, shortened slightly) +
standard track parts + small "whistlestop" station USD 219
5- Rural passenger station, ala my blue/white one, or the cutaway one
the PNLTC has USD 79
6- extra passenger car in matching scheme to above USD 40
7- Steam engine with new piston/rod/drivers, motor in tender (which has
two trucks, the motor one with 6 wheels, one with 4) USD 150
8- Freight car pack: my railbox but with corrected logo, my blue/white
box, Steve Barile's spool car, Ben Fleske's grey tank (reengineered to
make tank attachment easy) USD 89
20 Set budget: As above, add
9- MOW set consisting of track speeders, a jordan spreader, and a small
utility crane, much of which uses the small wheels and 1x4 with tiny
axle pegs plate. USD 79
10- Lift bridge kit - a rolling lift bridge with a very large 1/3 round
curved rack to make a proper Scherzer - USD 125
11- Signal towers kit - electrified signal tower with 3 aspect LED, 9V
powered, and controlled by manual switch USD 35
- Insulated track section to allow building of reverse loops. USD 5
12- Reengineered switch that allows for better geometry (ala Matt Bates
design study) USD 25 per pair
13- motorised points accessory for switch USD 10 per motor
14- Train parts pack, train windows and doors in at least 5 colors.
Striping stickers for the doors to make them two color in all the basic
brick colors.
15- unit train pack, 5 identical cylinder bottom hopper/gondolas
(they're the size of hoppers but have no hopper doors) with one white
end and rotary couplers USD 110
16- Budd RDC car in chrome USD 80 (has to have a motor)
17- service buildings pack: sand tower, water tipple, diesel fuel dock
USD 50 or USD 90 if it also has a coaling tower
18- auto rack capable of holding at least 6 cars USD 50 (including the
cars)
19- bilevel commuter train: another modern diesel and two "GO" or
chicago bilevel cars plus standard track pack USD 149
20- Steamer parts pack, the parts from the steamer, above, needed to
build your own variant or mod (the drivers, rods, axles, connecting
rods, valve gear and piston blocks)
--
Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
- Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
- Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
- This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Whoops, there's one extra in the 20 list... drop the steamer
accessories, I guess.
--
Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
- Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
- Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
- This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:55:46 GMT, Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote:
> ... Steve Bliss's Chessie ...
You leave my chessie alone!
I think you meant Steve Barille's Chessie, right?
Steve
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Steve Bliss wrote:
>
> On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:55:46 GMT, Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote:
>
> > ... Steve Bliss's Chessie ...
>
> You leave my chessie alone!
>
> I think you meant Steve Barille's Chessie, right?
Are you sure you didn't make one? I nevir maek misteaks. >;-)
--
Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
- Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
- Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
- This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
i think the reason we are not seeing any decent trains lately is because by
their nature train sets cost more than other legos because of the motor,track
and controller.
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In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Wilson writes:
> i think the reason we are not seeing any decent trains lately is because by
> their nature train sets cost more than other legos because of the motor,track
> and controller.
Well couldn't they just sell the train or maybe just the individual cars by
themselves? I don't need any more curved track or another controller.
I would like to see a good diesel engine and a box car. That way I could buy
one or two engines and many, many box cars.
Jimmy
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"James Beerman" <jtbeerm@ibm.net> wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Wilson writes:
> > i think the reason we are not seeing any decent trains lately is because by
> > their nature train sets cost more than other legos because of the motor,track
> > and controller.
>
> Well couldn't they just sell the train or maybe just the individual cars by
> themselves? I don't need any more curved track or another controller.
...Well, they kinda started that with the 'Classic Train' and the cars set (no
set numbers, my catalogs are all at work :-/
...I agree its much better to get a train sans track. Makes the set cheaper and
doesn't burden the set with lots of extra track you may not need... :-/
> I would like to see a good diesel engine and a box car. That way I could buy
> one or two engines and many, many box cars.
...Now wouldn't that be a dream! Assemble your own trains a-la-cart! sigh...
--
just a thought
snafu
aka Stephen F Roberts /----------------------\
/---------------------------< physicist -- webmaster |
| snafu@io.com \ - freelance genius - |
| http://www.io.com/~snafu/ |---------------------/
\----------------------------/
<remove the SpamShieldRemoveToReply part in my email to reply >
<use of my email for unsolicited comercial is strictly forbidden>
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In lugnet.trains, James Beerman writes:
> In lugnet.trains, Jonathan Wilson writes:
> > i think the reason we are not seeing any decent trains lately is because by
> > their nature train sets cost more than other legos because of the motor,track
> > and controller.
>
> Well couldn't they just sell the train or maybe just the individual cars by
> themselves? I don't need any more curved track or another controller.
I doubt that there is anyone here who would complain!
> I would like to see a good diesel engine and a box car. That way I could buy
> one or two engines and many, many box cars.
If Dan Parker will take a picture of it, I made a nice red boxcar. It uses 2
sets of the sliding red doors from the last 4.5V train, and a baseplate from
the crane railway.
(but it looks -good!)
James
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I would love to see individual cars/engines instead of buying all the
sets. I think I spent close to 500-600 just last year on trains. Ugh!
Scott Sanburn
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On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 02:24:18 GMT, Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote:
> Steve Bliss wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:55:46 GMT, Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote:
> >
> > > ... Steve Bliss's Chessie ...
> >
> > You leave my chessie alone!
> >
> > I think you meant Steve Barille's Chessie, right?
>
> Are you sure you didn't make one? I nevir maek misteaks. >;-)
Oh, yeah. That's right. I made a really killer Chessie last year. Wow,
that had totally slipped my mind. Weird.
Steve
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Amen, Larry. If only TLG would... :)
Scott Sanburn
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
>
> Here are my answers.
>
> One single set:
>
> - 1 oval of track with 4 straightaways and power pack (the above is
> "Standard track parts")
> - Robin Werner's blue ConRail engine, Steve Bliss's Chessie, or my
> Red/Yellow diesel
> - My black hopper
> - A full size boxcar built with the grey sliding doors
> - 4543 railroad tractor flatbed car
> - My caboose or something very similar
> USD $159
>
> 8 set budget
>
> Modify the motor to take a third wheel in the center of each side
>
> 1- single set, above
> 2- my 5 unit doublestack with a container crane and skeleton
> truck/trailer USD 99
> 3- a US-ized and reegineered 4551 with dual motors USD 99
> 4- Metroliner but with an AEM7 engine and 1 window longer cars OR my big
> red passenger engine and train (only 3 cars of it, shortened slightly) +
> standard track parts + small "whistlestop" station USD 219
> 5- Rural passenger station, ala my blue/white one, or the cutaway one
> the PNLTC has USD 79
> 6- extra passenger car in matching scheme to above USD 40
> 7- Steam engine with new piston/rod/drivers, motor in tender (which has
> two trucks, the motor one with 6 wheels, one with 4) USD 150
> 8- Freight car pack: my railbox but with corrected logo, my blue/white
> box, Steve Barile's spool car, Ben Fleske's grey tank (reengineered to
> make tank attachment easy) USD 89
>
> 20 Set budget: As above, add
>
> 9- MOW set consisting of track speeders, a jordan spreader, and a small
> utility crane, much of which uses the small wheels and 1x4 with tiny
> axle pegs plate. USD 79
> 10- Lift bridge kit - a rolling lift bridge with a very large 1/3 round
> curved rack to make a proper Scherzer - USD 125
> 11- Signal towers kit - electrified signal tower with 3 aspect LED, 9V
> powered, and controlled by manual switch USD 35
> - Insulated track section to allow building of reverse loops. USD 5
> 12- Reengineered switch that allows for better geometry (ala Matt Bates
> design study) USD 25 per pair
> 13- motorised points accessory for switch USD 10 per motor
> 14- Train parts pack, train windows and doors in at least 5 colors.
> Striping stickers for the doors to make them two color in all the basic
> brick colors.
> 15- unit train pack, 5 identical cylinder bottom hopper/gondolas
> (they're the size of hoppers but have no hopper doors) with one white
> end and rotary couplers USD 110
> 16- Budd RDC car in chrome USD 80 (has to have a motor)
> 17- service buildings pack: sand tower, water tipple, diesel fuel dock
> USD 50 or USD 90 if it also has a coaling tower
> 18- auto rack capable of holding at least 6 cars USD 50 (including the
> cars)
> 19- bilevel commuter train: another modern diesel and two "GO" or
> chicago bilevel cars plus standard track pack USD 149
> 20- Steamer parts pack, the parts from the steamer, above, needed to
> build your own variant or mod (the drivers, rods, axles, connecting
> rods, valve gear and piston blocks)
>
> --
> Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
> FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
> See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
> For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
> - Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
> - Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
> - This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Most of that sounds good, although I'd like to see TLG make the jump to 8
stud wide cars and engines which allows for more room and better modeling
IMHO. If you are going to take the time and effort to overhaul the theme,
why not do it right?
What you forgot was a new curve radius that is gentler than what exists now
to go along with the new switches. You mentioned chrome, but what would be
cool would be a Pullman corrugated coach using chrome train windows, 1x2
and 1x4 chrome corrugated bricks, and 1x4x1.3 half rounds in chrome for the
roof. "...to dream the impossible dream...";-) Shouldn't we be cross
posting to .dear-lego?
-John
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Here are my answers.
>
> One single set:
>
> - 1 oval of track with 4 straightaways and power pack (the above is
> "Standard track parts")
> - Robin Werner's blue ConRail engine, Steve Bliss's Chessie, or my
> Red/Yellow diesel
> - My black hopper
> - A full size boxcar built with the grey sliding doors
> - 4543 railroad tractor flatbed car
> - My caboose or something very similar
> USD $159
>
> 8 set budget
>
> Modify the motor to take a third wheel in the center of each side
>
> 1- single set, above
> 2- my 5 unit doublestack with a container crane and skeleton
> truck/trailer USD 99
> 3- a US-ized and reegineered 4551 with dual motors USD 99
> 4- Metroliner but with an AEM7 engine and 1 window longer cars OR my big
> red passenger engine and train (only 3 cars of it, shortened slightly) +
> standard track parts + small "whistlestop" station USD 219
> 5- Rural passenger station, ala my blue/white one, or the cutaway one
> the PNLTC has USD 79
> 6- extra passenger car in matching scheme to above USD 40
> 7- Steam engine with new piston/rod/drivers, motor in tender (which has
> two trucks, the motor one with 6 wheels, one with 4) USD 150
> 8- Freight car pack: my railbox but with corrected logo, my blue/white
> box, Steve Barile's spool car, Ben Fleske's grey tank (reengineered to
> make tank attachment easy) USD 89
>
> 20 Set budget: As above, add
>
> 9- MOW set consisting of track speeders, a jordan spreader, and a small
> utility crane, much of which uses the small wheels and 1x4 with tiny
> axle pegs plate. USD 79
> 10- Lift bridge kit - a rolling lift bridge with a very large 1/3 round
> curved rack to make a proper Scherzer - USD 125
> 11- Signal towers kit - electrified signal tower with 3 aspect LED, 9V
> powered, and controlled by manual switch USD 35
> - Insulated track section to allow building of reverse loops. USD 5
> 12- Reengineered switch that allows for better geometry (ala Matt Bates
> design study) USD 25 per pair
> 13- motorised points accessory for switch USD 10 per motor
> 14- Train parts pack, train windows and doors in at least 5 colors.
> Striping stickers for the doors to make them two color in all the basic
> brick colors.
> 15- unit train pack, 5 identical cylinder bottom hopper/gondolas
> (they're the size of hoppers but have no hopper doors) with one white
> end and rotary couplers USD 110
> 16- Budd RDC car in chrome USD 80 (has to have a motor)
> 17- service buildings pack: sand tower, water tipple, diesel fuel dock
> USD 50 or USD 90 if it also has a coaling tower
> 18- auto rack capable of holding at least 6 cars USD 50 (including the
> cars)
> 19- bilevel commuter train: another modern diesel and two "GO" or
> chicago bilevel cars plus standard track pack USD 149
> 20- Steamer parts pack, the parts from the steamer, above, needed to
> build your own variant or mod (the drivers, rods, axles, connecting
> rods, valve gear and piston blocks)
>
> --
> Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
> FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
> See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
> For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
> - Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
> - Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
> - This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
John Neal wrote:
<larger radius curve>
YES! How did I forget? Also shorter segments to allow more layout
variety.
<8 stud rant>
I thought long and hard about 8 stud. I do understand why it would be
desirable scalewise but I think 6 stud is the way to go. Too big a
change. Everything else in LegoLand is minifig scale... so are trains. 8
stud canNOT go with that tight curve, 6 stud is bad enough. That
curvature is tolerable for euroshorties, but actually is a bit over the
edge for american lengths already. Scale up the length to stay
proportional to the increase in width and height and you quickly get out
of hand.
> Shouldn't we be cross
> posting to .dear-lego?
Let's see if we get some other ideas... I was not looking for everyone
to say "great, Lar, you got it 100% right", although that's only my just
due, of course... I was hoping for some discussion.
When we have a consensus then we could post to dear-lego to formalize
it.
--
Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
- Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
- Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
- This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
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|
Well, what would be more prototypical than 8 stud wide trains with tight
curves.... to me that sounds like narrow gauge. Although I'm not a big fan
of narrow gauge, it would seem to me to be the perfect application. [1]
[1] OTOH the minifig would have to been abandoned and the midifig would be
to scale. Then you'd have to go 10 stud wide, and that's G scale right
there. Sounds like fun to me!
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> John Neal wrote:
>
> <larger radius curve>
> YES! How did I forget? Also shorter segments to allow more layout
> variety.
>
> <8 stud rant>
you mean 1 stud rants;-)
>
>
> I thought long and hard about 8 stud. I do understand why it would be
> desirable scalewise but I think 6 stud is the way to go. Too big a
> change. Everything else in LegoLand is minifig scale... so are trains. 8
> stud canNOT go with that tight curve, 6 stud is bad enough. That
> curvature is tolerable for euroshorties, but actually is a bit over the
> edge for american lengths already. Scale up the length to stay
> proportional to the increase in width and height and you quickly get out
> of hand.
>
> > Shouldn't we be cross
> > posting to .dear-lego?
>
> Let's see if we get some other ideas... I was not looking for everyone
> to say "great, Lar, you got it 100% right", although that's only my just
> due, of course... I was hoping for some discussion.
of course....not! - Lisa Leubner
>
>
> When we have a consensus then we could post to dear-lego to formalize
> it.
>
> --
> Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
> FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
> See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
> For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
> - Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
> - Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
> - This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Larry Pieniazek wrote:
> Here are my answers.
>
> One single set:
>
> - 1 oval of track with 4 straightaways and power pack (the above is
> "Standard track parts")
> - Robin Werner's blue ConRail engine, Steve Bliss's Chessie, or my
> Red/Yellow diesel
> - My black hopper
> - A full size boxcar built with the grey sliding doors
> - 4543 railroad tractor flatbed car
> - My caboose or something very similar
> USD $159
Even though this set seems good I do not think LEGO would sell it for $160.
This set would be bigger than the current big set, 4565 Freight and Crane
Railway, and your set would include a transformer. I know, I am nitpicking.
From the original post...
> Suppose you wanted to design it to pull mainstream model railroaders in?
> Would you change the design any?
This is the very hard part. Would serious (by the way, what is your
definition of serious? 1 large basement setup? Several setups in several
different scales?) model railroaders ever accept a a smiley minifig? I
suspect that they wouldn't.
Big set. 1 oval with 4 straight tracks. no controller. Best LEGO price
guess $160 (what I would like to see $130-140 off course I would then
really like to see "On Sale 20% off" after seeing an MSRP of $130 but I
digress...)
Engine: Will Chapman's Conner 2 Diesel (
http://www.halcyon.com/willc/lego/trains/disl_ind.htm ) or
Robin's (lost the URL) Conrail, but the working fans would have to be
removed--too exspensive. These two seem to comform to minifig scale well.
(I have redesigned my Blue Diesel to address two major modeling
deficiencies, but I do not have
One of Joe's rounded top covered hoppers.
The open short (in height) hopper (is this a hopper car? the gray one with
the yellow bricks in it) ( http://userweb.springnet1.com/jdavenp/Car-NW.jpg
).
A box car: one of Joe's would be nice (
http://userweb.springnet1.com/jdavenp/Train.html ).
Small set. 1 oval with 4 (or 2, but I think 2 is weeny..can I say "weeny"
in this group?) strait tracks. Controller included. $125
Steve Barile's Long Island Rail Road switcher (
http://www.pnltc.org/Gal_engines.htm ) (I just love this model.)
Two wheel tank car based on Ben's or Joe's design.
Two wheel flatbed with container. Fork lift and truck (optional)
A caboose (a short wheel base four wheeler like Joe's or a two wheeler
based on Joe's or Steve's)
Other items
A tank car. Ben Fleskes has a nice one based on large (out of production?)
Technic hubs ( http://www.pnltc.org/Gal_freight.htm ). Joe did a tanker
made out of castle quarter wall pieces. I thought that looked good, but
pictures of black LEGO models are always hard to see (I must add that I
plan on copying the tanker).
Box cars galore. ?$25
Livestock (with LEGO livestock included) carrying cars. ?$25
Engines-big ones $40-50.
Engines-little ones i.e. switchers $30-40.
A trolley (you should have seen that one coming) $30-40.
$160-Big steamer (with ears-I don't car if ears are "un-American" I like
'em- and big unpowered diving wheels, the motor will be on the oil/coal
car) with an oil/coal car (four or six wheels) and 2 Pullman (don't
actually have to be Pullman but you get the idea) coaches.
$130 A real western looking wood burning engine with 2 coaches (make this
one the small model. So, 2 wheel wood car and 2 wheel coaches with
controler)
$130 Modern transit (2 car inexspensive model) with a little stop for
people to catch the train.
$150 Amtrack trains (3 or 4 big cars)
....any way...I need to go get some work done.
Chris
P.S. Larry I think your 6 wheeled motor is a great idea. Maybe the 2 middle
wheels could be added much like that little knob is added to the motor now.
Just clip a six wheel adapter to the four whell motors et voila!
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It would cost less than $150 and it would be a typical U.S. freight train,
except only one of each car (including the engine). Track would include
enough to do a loop and several straight sections in case someone wanted to
run a train on the floor around some sort of tree. Parts would be available
from LEGO so that the designer (which is ALL OF US) can add on to the train
as part of this train hobby. There are fanciful design examples linked to
the web that you can emulate if you wish by buying more parts from LEGO.
LEGO of course would supply these parts at reasonable prices in reasonable
quantities.
That is what I would like to see from LEGO.
John
Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote in message
news:3724BE11.1C54287A@voyager.net...
> Here's a thought experiment.
>
> Suppose you wanted to design a train set that would be good for drawing
> **USA** newcomers into trains. What would you put in it? How much would
> you target it costing? Realise that the pricing/profit has to be about
> the same margins as we have now, no fair saying "I think a 6 car
> Metroliner like set at 49.95 would be great", because that's too easy.
>
> Suppose you wanted to design it to pull mainstream model railroaders in?
> Would you change the design any?
>
> You can be as vague or specific as you want. You can sketch out designs,
> point to specific MOC models as evoking what you have in mind, name off
> cars or engines from past TLG sets, whatever.
>
> Now suppose you have an 8 set budget which you can spend any way you
> want (starter sets, accessory packs, buildings, etc). What sets would
> you put in it?
>
> What if it was a 20 set budget?
>
>
>
> --
> Larry Pieniazek http://my.voyager.net/lar
> FDIC Know your Customer is wounded, thanks to you, but not dead...
> See http://www.defendyourprivacy.com for details
> For me: No voyager e-mail please. All snail-mail to Ada, please.
> - Posting Binaries to RTL causes flamage... Don't do it, please.
> - Stick to the facts when posting about others, please.
> - This is a family newsgroup, thanks.
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On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 19:27:13 GMT, Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> wrote:
> Here's a thought experiment.
>
> Suppose you wanted to design a train set that would be good for drawing
> **USA** newcomers into trains. What would you put in it? How much would
> you target it costing? Realise that the pricing/profit has to be about
> the same margins as we have now, no fair saying "I think a 6 car
> Metroliner like set at 49.95 would be great", because that's too easy.
Hmmm. I'm not a trainhead by any stretch, so let's see what I come up
with.
I envision an Old West train, done right.[1] It would not have to be
prototypical, but the more prototypical it is, the better. I'll describe a
configuration, I hope I don't make anyone cringe too badly. The train
should have a black steam engine, green/brown passenger car, green/brown
freight/mail car and a red caboose (well, maybe the caboose could be
green/brown as well). A small black coal tender would be good, but
probably beyond budget. There should be good detailing, possibly some
exaggeration of features, such as an over-large smokestack (inverted cone,
of course).
For the cars, the brown elements should evoke finely finished wood
components, with a rich natural finish. The green should be used for
painted components--the roof, the frame.
Engine required elements:
- open-back engineer's station
- large, spoked wheels
- piston rods on wheels (could these connect two sets of wheels, what with
the wheelsets having to be free to turn?)
- cowcatcher
- bell
- inverted-cone smokestack
- 6x24 wagon plate for the base. At least enough length for two
independent wheelsets.
Passenger car elements:
- Large windows (well, duh)
- 6x20 footprint.
- at least 4 rows of bench seating (bench=2 seats side-by-side)
- front and rear entry platforms
- Removeable roof
Freight & Mail car would include:
- Stowage compartments along one side, passage on other
- Clerk's desk in back
- mail bags
- 6x20 footprint
- removeable roof
Caboose elements (I'm running out of steam here):
- Cupola
- table & chairs
- 6x16 base
- removable roof
The set would also include:
- 16 curved tracks, to make a circle.
- 4 straight tracks
- Speed regulator
I *think* this could be done at TLG's typical piece count & price level for
the train sets.
> Suppose you wanted to design it to pull mainstream model railroaders in?
> Would you change the design any?
Yes the design would change to grab mainstream model railroaders--it would
have to be fully prototypical. Both in individual car design, and in the
train configuration.
> Now suppose you have an 8 set budget which you can spend any way you
> want (starter sets, accessory packs, buildings, etc). What sets would
> you put in it?
>
> What if it was a 20 set budget?
Let me get back to you on these.
Steve
1 - The 3225 is OK, but the engine and cars are too small. They say to me
"toy train!" (as in a plastic toy for a two-year-old to push around the
floor), but they don't have the "cuteness" factor that should go with these
types of toys.
2 - You know, the more I look at 3225, the more I think "Someone did a
really great job designing a beautiful small train in red and black, and
then the corporate marketing hacks 'improved' it, probably dropping one or
more cars, and adding those awful tipper and flat cars."
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Larry and Railroaders,
Here's is my plan for the new Lego Train System:
Note: All train cars are the longer four axle type.
I'm also assuming that all track and accessories will remain available
(wheels, motor, etc.)
Plan A (starter set):
1) Santa Fe Freight <Switcher Loco, Tanker Car, Flat Car, Box Car and oval
track> $150 US (basic transformer)
Plan B: (8 sets) A starter set plus
2) Amtrak Super Liner <Newer Loco, Two Double Decker Cars and small
platform> $135 US (no track or transformer)
3) Union Station <Station Building, Box Car and large platform> $75 US
4) Large Freight Loco <Loco with repair crew> $65 US
5) Amtrak Auto Train Car <One Car with four autos> $55 US
6) Freight Station <Station Building and platform> $45 US
7) Caboose and Hopper Car $35 US
8) Manual Crossing $25 US
Plan C: (20 sets) A and B plus
9) Old West Train <Steamer, Flat Car, Coach Car and Mail Car> $120 US (no
track or transformer)
10) Main Cargo Crane <Large Crane, Two Flat Car and Truck> $95 US
11) Super Transformer (support powered accessories and two tracks) $60 US
12) Powered Railroad Crossing (a newer US version of the classic 80's 12v
crossing) $50 US
13) Powered Switches $40 US
14) Powered decupler Kit $30 US
15) Fix-it Crew $20 US
17) Flat Car $15 US
18) Train Doors and Windows $10 US
19) Other Train Parts $10 US
20) Half Track Two Pack $5 US
Well that's my plan.
See Ya...
Robin
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